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Bit problems..I'm so frusterated.

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  • Mikmar d ring snaffle bad
  • Mikmar d ring snaffle

 
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    11-27-2010, 10:36 AM
  #11
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by haleylvsshammy    
Ever tried a mikmar d-ring snaffle bit? It's a great bit! My horse used to be ridden in an elevator all the time! We switched him to the mikmar and he listens! It's a great jumping bit as well as flat. He LOVES it (it has a tongue roller in the middle, entertainment!) and actually gets into frame with it. It is a soft bit, but when you pull back, it puts pressure in the right places and makes them listen! I would suggest trying to find one to try before buying... they can be a bit expensive (we got a USED one for $108, so they are costly).
Thanks. I'll try that.
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    11-29-2010, 12:39 PM
  #12
Foal
Here is something nobody has brought up yet, perhaps this mare is physically in some sort of pain. If the is kicking at her belly when she is asked to be in frame perhaps she has a pinched nerve in her spine somewhere. She's giving obvious signs of discomfort be it physical or mental.

One of my sore spots is with bits. I will put my opinion as nicely as possible and I want everyone to know that I feel for the original poster and am not attacking that person in any way as I have been in her position before when I was starting out.

That bit IS horrible. Pretend you are this mare wearing that bit, look at how that bit works in your hands and empathize with the horse wearing it on the bars of their mouth, bridge of their nose and on the lower jaw. Hold the bit in position in your hands and work the reins. Watch how the leveraging angles work the parts of the bit. Do this before using any bit. Learn how bits work. Do this for your self. There may not be much you can do in this situation but it can teach you great things if you listen to your gut and you already have doubts because you asked the question in the forum.

Your gut is right. The trainer needs to restart this mare properly and should get a chiropractor out to look at the mare. The order of thought when dealing with a horse related problem is; What am I doing wrong (first and for most)? Is there a physical problem I am having? Is there a physical problem the horse is having? Is there a tack fit problem? Is there a step or more that I missed in training? Upping the ante through bits is not the solution so you are right again. A harsher bit will need to be amped up to an even harsher bit later after she gets desensitized to that one and those are even uglier.

If there is a behavior issue the answer is modifying the behavior; to train properly (if there is no physical issue). Less is more as far as bits and tack go. I tell myself "Be smarter than the bit/tack" when stuff like this comes up for me.

Sometimes free isn't the best option. Look at what you are learning for free. I'm sure some is great but if you are wanting to learn the horse world and how it works you may be better off working for someone who knows more about proper training. Bits and tack add-on's don't make the horse; trainer, rider and horse make the horse. A good buyer will see right through the bitting and riding issues, will probably have a trainer with them, and they both may ride this horse pre-purchase not to mention a pre-purchase vet exam. These are high dollar horses and most people with lots of money for horses will have their backs covered. Learn to be a good trainer, think for yourself always, and don't believe everything someone in authority says, no one person has all the answers. I would suggest that you evaluate what you are learning from this trainer and evaluate the position this person is putting YOU in. If they are having you ride a horse with harsher bits and the horse is already exhibiting signs of displeasure will she up the ante too? Don't let anyone put you in a position to get hurt. Please. You only have one body, watch your back as well.
     
    11-29-2010, 01:17 PM
  #13
Green Broke
^^Excellent post!
     
    11-29-2010, 01:31 PM
  #14
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opendoorequine    
Here is something nobody has brought up yet, perhaps this mare is physically in some sort of pain. If the is kicking at her belly when she is asked to be in frame perhaps she has a pinched nerve in her spine somewhere. She's giving obvious signs of discomfort be it physical or mental.

One of my sore spots is with bits. I will put my opinion as nicely as possible and I want everyone to know that I feel for the original poster and am not attacking that person in any way as I have been in her position before when I was starting out.

That bit IS horrible. Pretend you are this mare wearing that bit, look at how that bit works in your hands and empathize with the horse wearing it on the bars of their mouth, bridge of their nose and on the lower jaw. Hold the bit in position in your hands and work the reins. Watch how the leveraging angles work the parts of the bit. Do this before using any bit. Learn how bits work. Do this for your self. There may not be much you can do in this situation but it can teach you great things if you listen to your gut and you already have doubts because you asked the question in the forum.

Your gut is right. The trainer needs to restart this mare properly and should get a chiropractor out to look at the mare. The order of thought when dealing with a horse related problem is; What am I doing wrong (first and for most)? Is there a physical problem I am having? Is there a physical problem the horse is having? Is there a tack fit problem? Is there a step or more that I missed in training? Upping the ante through bits is not the solution so you are right again. A harsher bit will need to be amped up to an even harsher bit later after she gets desensitized to that one and those are even uglier.

If there is a behavior issue the answer is modifying the behavior; to train properly (if there is no physical issue). Less is more as far as bits and tack go. I tell myself "Be smarter than the bit/tack" when stuff like this comes up for me.

Sometimes free isn't the best option. Look at what you are learning for free. I'm sure some is great but if you are wanting to learn the horse world and how it works you may be better off working for someone who knows more about proper training. Bits and tack add-on's don't make the horse; trainer, rider and horse make the horse. A good buyer will see right through the bitting and riding issues, will probably have a trainer with them, and they both may ride this horse pre-purchase not to mention a pre-purchase vet exam. These are high dollar horses and most people with lots of money for horses will have their backs covered. Learn to be a good trainer, think for yourself always, and don't believe everything someone in authority says, no one person has all the answers. I would suggest that you evaluate what you are learning from this trainer and evaluate the position this person is putting YOU in. If they are having you ride a horse with harsher bits and the horse is already exhibiting signs of displeasure will she up the ante too? Don't let anyone put you in a position to get hurt. Please. You only have one body, watch your back as well.

Thanks for your suggestions..I appreciate it.

I know she does not have a health issue...she's just a straight up stubborn brat and hates to work. I can use a plan full cheek snaffle and if I try and get her round, she throws a fit. Now getting her into frame in a full cheek is next to impossible at the moment. One, because I get tired too quick and she wins. Two, she is really strong, and if she can get out of working hard she will.

I have tried a lot of bits on her, some harsh some not harsh at all...and they all get the same reaction. She will throw a fit for a few minutes, then get used to the bit and work fine. Then a couple days later she will discover a way not to listen, and get out of working. This bit that I'm using...(FYI I don't use it every time I ride) she has no choice but to listen and work with it. She gets the idea of how to round and use her back with out me holding her into frame with my hands...I can just concentrate on using my legs and and keeping her balanced, and not have to have such a strong hold on her mouth.

As I do appreciate your response, what I don't appreciate is you dissing my trainer. I know you don't know me or my situation, but I will fill you in...
I've been riding with this person for 12 years, he's helped me with my own horses and never once had I had a problem with him and never have I felt unsafe with him. He knows the horse better than people on the internet, so I do trust his opinion, and I don't see the problem with trying something different. And I am able to have an input on this horses training hence why I asked for a suggestion to a different bit. And you know what, I probably learned more from him for free than I ever did when I paid for a trainer.

I understand what you are saying, but you know nothing about my trainer and you offended me.
     
    11-29-2010, 03:02 PM
  #15
Foal
As I said, I don't mean any disrespect. Of course I don't know anything about you or your trainer. My reply was strictly based on the information in the original post and you asked openly for suggestions. Based on the information given I felt compelled to respond because it read to me, (having over 20 years of experience with horses and 16 of those years professionally) that you were heading towards a bad situation. It's too bad that my reply based on information given was offensive to you. That was not my intention.

Still, upping the bit rather than taking a look at methods is not a good answer to behavior issues.
     
    11-29-2010, 03:17 PM
  #16
Yearling
It's not that I'm upping the bit...I'm trying different types of bits. No where, through my whole 18 years experience with horses, have I heard that trying bits was a bad thing. I don't see keeping the same bit for the horses whole career is a smart idea either. That's why I asked for a suggestion for something else to try.

I know you based your opinion of my trainer on what I said, but did I ask for an opinion about my trainer? If I did I would have given more detail about that situation.

Thanks anyway. Even though you didn't answer what I was asking.
     
    11-29-2010, 03:27 PM
  #17
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikaLynn    
It's not that I'm upping the bit...I'm trying different types of bits. No where, through my whole 18 years experience with horses, have I heard that trying bits was a bad thing. I don't see keeping the same bit for the horses whole career is a smart idea either. That's why I asked for a suggestion for something else to try.

I know you based your opinion of my trainer on what I said, but did I ask for an opinion about my trainer? If I did I would have given more detail about that situation.

Thanks anyway. Even though you didn't answer what I was asking.

Part of the problem is the question you are asking - you are unlikely to receive the answer you are looking for. There is no such thing as a wonder bit for getting a horse to 'round up' as you call it, flex, be forward, be less forward, behave, etc etc etc. Of course your trainer has probably already told you this. Sorry you are offended but you shouldn't be surprised by OpenDoors response, or anyone elses.

Also, before you get too high and mighty about years of experience, in your first thread on this forum (where you fell off 7 times in the warm up arena) you said you were coming back from a 7 year hiatus. So is the 18 years experience including this hiatus or not?

Sorry your question hasn't been answered and sorry you have been offended but short term solutions for long term problems are just that: Short term.
     
    11-29-2010, 03:39 PM
  #18
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahver    
Part of the problem is the question you are asking - you are unlikely to receive the answer you are looking for. There is no such thing as a wonder bit for getting a horse to 'round up' as you call it, flex, be forward, be less forward, behave, etc etc etc. Of course your trainer has probably already told you this. Sorry you are offended but you shouldn't be surprised by OpenDoors response, or anyone elses.

Also, before you get too high and mighty about years of experience, in your first thread on this forum (where you fell off 7 times in the warm up arena) you said you were coming back from a 7 year hiatus. So is the 18 years experience including this hiatus or not?

Sorry your question hasn't been answered and sorry you have been offended but short term solutions for long term problems are just that: Short term.

Actually it was answered by 2 people on here...why is it those people can understand a question and give a bit suggestion just fine, then I have people harping me about what I'm doing wrong. I know what I'm doing I'm not an idiot.

And actually I can't care less about experience, I only said it because Opendoorequine had to throw something about it in there. Which I felt was unnecessary and boastful.

By the way it was a 6 year hiatus. And just because I didnt ride for 6 years does NOT mean I forgot everything I know. (My body was out of shape though) You know, if you ride horse you fall off...I'm over it, you should be too.

FYI the harsh western bit I use sometimes...works the best so far. Maybe that is the wonder bit....

Sorry for losing my cool, but it annoys me when people cannot answer a simple question...then have to give me their 2 cents that I don't really care about...then offend me on top of it.
     
    11-29-2010, 05:22 PM
  #19
Foal
Not many questions are simple questions when it comes to choosing equipment or behavior problems. Some things work for some horses and some things don't work that worked for many horses before.

I put in my amount of experience because I didn't want anyone thinking I'm a fresh horse person who thinks horsies are perfect in all ways. They are not and the issues we have with them don't always have easy answers. By the same token, we are not easy to deal with and neither are our issues.

It's too bad that you think I was being harsh. It wasn't my intention and I am not a harsh person. I'm also not a harsh person when it comes to horses & working with them. That's why I suggested looking to the methods rather than the bits. I am always questioning my methods myself. I like hearing differing opinions on all things, not just horses.

I certainly don't think you are an idiot. I commend you for asking what people think and what works for them, I have mentioned that already. I also think it's good to debate an issue as long as everyone is listening and hearing what is being said.

If this mare is really a horse that doesn't respond for you and your trainer the way that the majority of other horses work for the both of you then routines that you would not normally use is what this individual horse needs. It does need to be safe though too, safe for everybody. I would think everyone who works with horses has at least one that gave them a lot of trouble.

That "Western barrel bit" is really harsh, there are worse though. Some have bicycle gear chain for a nose band and sharp twisted wire bars. I've watched them get used, and I've watched the horse come out of the run bloodied. I've also watched barrels being run with loose ring snaffles and bring in better times. There is a reason some bits are banned from the show ring. So if someone is working with a short list of equipment they have to find a different approach to make that equipment work. That's the gist of what I'm saying. It had nothing to do with being an idiot, its about working within the parameters set by the judging committees ie finding a way to make things happen when no other solution seems obvious.

I had one horse who was used to that bit you have. He was labeled a runner. I put a snaffle in his mouth and boy did he prove his label right. We both landed in a barbwire fence (only scratches and no serious injuries). In about 3 weeks I had him working with a medium weight medium thick bared eggbutt rather nicely. I brought him back to basics and did a lot of long lining. It can be done and you can do a better job than I did if you get back to the snaffle and do long lining with no riding for a while.
     
    11-29-2010, 06:14 PM
  #20
Yearling
I am sorry for getting defensive. I know you were just trying to help. I just got upset when you questioned my trainer and the way you worded things made me feel like you were talking down to me. I know that wasn't your intention.

It also annoys me when other people chime in. It makes me feel dumb and ganged up on.
But thanks for your suggestion.
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