Originally Posted by Opendoorequine
Here is something nobody has brought up yet, perhaps this mare is physically in some sort of pain. If the is kicking at her belly when she is asked to be in frame perhaps she has a pinched nerve in her spine somewhere. She's giving obvious signs of discomfort be it physical or mental.
One of my sore spots is with bits. I will put my opinion as nicely as possible and I want everyone to know that I feel for the original poster and am not attacking that person in any way as I have been in her position before when I was starting out.
That bit IS horrible. Pretend you are this mare wearing that bit, look at how that bit works in your hands and empathize with the horse wearing it on the bars of their mouth, bridge of their nose and on the lower jaw. Hold the bit in position in your hands and work the reins. Watch how the leveraging angles work the parts of the bit. Do this before using any bit. Learn how bits work. Do this for your self. There may not be much you can do in this situation but it can teach you great things if you listen to your gut and you already have doubts because you asked the question in the forum.
Your gut is right. The trainer needs to restart this mare properly and should get a chiropractor out to look at the mare. The order of thought when dealing with a horse related problem is; What am I doing wrong (first and for most)? Is there a physical problem I am having? Is there a physical problem the horse is having? Is there a tack fit problem? Is there a step or more that I missed in training? Upping the ante through bits is not the solution so you are right again. A harsher bit will need to be amped up to an even harsher bit later after she gets desensitized to that one and those are even uglier.
If there is a behavior issue the answer is modifying the behavior; to train properly (if there is no physical issue). Less is more as far as bits and tack go. I tell myself "Be smarter than the bit/tack" when stuff like this comes up for me.
Sometimes free isn't the best option. Look at what you are learning for free. I'm sure some is great but if you are wanting to learn the horse world and how it works you may be better off working for someone who knows more about proper training. Bits and tack add-on's don't make the horse; trainer, rider and horse make the horse. A good buyer will see right through the bitting and riding issues, will probably have a trainer with them, and they both may ride this horse pre-purchase not to mention a pre-purchase vet exam. These are high dollar horses and most people with lots of money for horses will have their backs covered. Learn to be a good trainer, think for yourself always, and don't believe everything someone in authority says, no one person has all the answers. I would suggest that you evaluate what you are learning from this trainer and evaluate the position this person is putting YOU in. If they are having you ride a horse with harsher bits and the horse is already exhibiting signs of displeasure will she up the ante too? Don't let anyone put you in a position to get hurt. Please. You only have one body, watch your back as well.
Thanks for your suggestions..I appreciate it.
I know she does not have a health issue...she's just a straight up stubborn brat and hates to work. I can use a plan full cheek snaffle and if I try and get her round, she throws a fit. Now getting her into frame in a full cheek is next to impossible at the moment. One, because I get tired too quick and she wins. Two, she is really strong, and if she can get out of working hard she will.
I have tried a lot of bits on her, some harsh some not harsh at all...and they all get the same reaction. She will throw a fit for a few minutes, then get used to the bit and work fine. Then a couple days later she will discover a way not to listen, and get out of working. This bit that I'm using...(FYI I don't use it every time I ride) she has no choice but to listen and work with it. She gets the idea of how to round and use her back with out me holding her into frame with my hands...I can just concentrate on using my legs and and keeping her balanced, and not have to have such a strong hold on her mouth.
As I do appreciate your response, what I don't appreciate is you dissing my trainer. I know you don't know me or my situation, but I will fill you in...
I've been riding with this person for 12 years, he's helped me with my own horses and never once had I had a problem with him and never have I felt unsafe with him. He knows the horse better than people on the internet, so I do trust his opinion, and I don't see the problem with trying something different. And I am able to have an input on this horses training hence why I asked for a suggestion to a different bit. And you know what, I probably learned more from him for free than I ever did when I paid for a trainer.
I understand what you are saying, but you know nothing about my trainer and you offended me.