Competition Rant - Page 13 - The Horse Forum

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post #121 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SullysRider View Post
It's not that people aren't reading, it's the attitude the dressage people are taking. That I'm so high and mighty that if someone or something is spooking my horse they must move because I'm not going to deal with it right before a test.
NO NO NO!! That's is not it at all! (people are apparently under that impression because they have this preconceived notion that dressage people are stuck up.) It's not about not wanting to deal with it- its about the safety of the baby in the pram... In the event that something DOES happen, which occasionally stuff does- we are dealing with HORSES! It is a safer option to keep people at a safe distance- especially babies and children.

"The barn taught me passion... Not the passion of winning-but rather the passion that you feel when you have nothing left but your love of something. The passion that is there when exhaustion steals your strength and frustration takes your hope."
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post #122 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:26 AM
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I think how far away the OP was is more than enough of a safe distance away. It's not about distance, you're getting off topic. It's about the fact that the horse was "spooking" at the pram when she was so far away she was asked to leave.

And on another note, you can like Dressage without liking the training practices.

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post #123 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SullysRider View Post
It's not that people aren't reading, it's the attitude the dressage people are taking. That I'm so high and mighty that if someone or something is spooking my horse they must move because I'm not going to deal with it right before a test.
I don't see any of our dressage people saying that
What they (and others) are trying to say is that sometimes any horse can throw a hissy fit regardless of how much its been desensitized and the safest and most considerate thing to do is to move out of the way especially if you have a child sitting in a buggy that's at a perfect height for a hoof to land on them
Without seeing a video of what actually occurred we really don't know what was going on with the horse/rider but I somehow doubt that the horse would have even noticed them at that distance or that the rider had time to try to control her horse and still keep talking to the OP.
Even if a dressage horse doesn't go off its yard it still gets exposed to all the goings on in the barn - trash cans, wheelbarrows, getting washed down, getting clipped, all the usual stuff that's kept around a barn
And even if she did move so far away - so what once the episode was over they could have walked quietly back - if they were even interested to do that
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post #124 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I don't see any of our dressage people saying that
What they (and others) are trying to say is that sometimes any horse can throw a hissy fit regardless of how much its been desensitized and the safest and most considerate thing to do is to move out of the way especially if you have a child sitting in a buggy that's at a perfect height for a hoof to land on them
Without seeing a video of what actually occurred we really don't know what was going on with the horse/rider
Once the episode was over they could have walked quietly back - if they were even interested to do that
If you go back and read some of their posts they say it is plenty ok to ask someone to move or leave if they are spooking their horse.

Sully ~Sullivan's Fly Supply~ [17.1 TB] RIP 2/24/14
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post #125 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SullysRider View Post
I think how far away the OP was is more than enough of a safe distance away. It's not about distance, you're getting off topic. It's about the fact that the horse was "spooking" at the pram when she was so far away she was asked to leave.

And on another note, you can like Dressage without liking the training practices.
Eh, I think there is more to the story regardless. 35 meters is far enough to be watching something in another ring. My sense is that out of frustration and embarrassment of having to move- there was/is some exaggeration going on. AND then something happened to warrant being asked to leave. I have been to my fair share of dressage shows- and typically officiators have bigger things to focus on than throwing out some woman and her pram.

Regardless- This thread has turned into a place where we all bash on dressage and how their silly little horses are never trained or desensitized. Which is untrue and ridiculous. When I was working at my old dressage stable- much to people's dismay- when we were starting a horse the first thing we did was call out "the cowboy" to work with horses on desensitizing and trust and natural horsemanship.

"The barn taught me passion... Not the passion of winning-but rather the passion that you feel when you have nothing left but your love of something. The passion that is there when exhaustion steals your strength and frustration takes your hope."
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post #126 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SullysRider View Post
If you go back and read some of their posts they say it is plenty ok to ask someone to move or leave if they are spooking their horse.

It IS okay to ask someone to move if they're spooking your horse. Not because you are a crappy trainer and don't want to teach your horse to get over it- but because there is a time and a place for such a thing- and trying to teach your horse to get over it in the middle of a show ring surrounded by people, is endangering all of the people there.

"The barn taught me passion... Not the passion of winning-but rather the passion that you feel when you have nothing left but your love of something. The passion that is there when exhaustion steals your strength and frustration takes your hope."
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post #127 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ponypile View Post
For those on the side of the OP/the idea that it's ridiculous for a horse to be spooking at the pram (need to desensitize, train better, etc.)... have you really never had a horse just loose it's mind or be honestly terrified of something?
Yep and I had to show anyway. I do reined cowhorse. My 5 YO mare is still green in the show pen this year. The last two shows have been HUGE so our class has been at night. The facility we show at does not have lights in the main arena, so they have to bring in gas powered lights. They are big. They are loud. And they are bright. They cause shadows in the arena because of where they are placed. My mare DID NOT like them and was terrified of them. The first show she started backing up REALLY FAST when we started going into the show pen and only went forward with a little assistance from behind. Once in the pen, I could feel her shaking and she was not listening, but I urged her on and we got through the reining pattern the best we could. Was not pretty, but oh well; we still got a score though! However, when the cow came out, she was a different horse and we got the best score we ever got.

The next show was also huge and we had to show under the lights again. I took her before our run and hung out by the lights and worked her a little on the ground around them. She was still nervous and we did not have a good run (she was extremely nervous in the reining portion & I lost focus on the cow and it got by me ). But the whole point was to get her listening to me; it will likely take a few more times, but we may not have to show under the lights for a while.

She was also freaked out by a pony at a play day. But again, she is still required to listen to me and work when I ask her. It's not pretty right now, but she's getting the idea that when I ask her to work, I take precedent over the scary object. It can be done (and is done all the time), but if others choose not to work that way, that's up to them.

I work my horses mainly at home. There are little distratcitons there so when we go out, there are major distractions. It doesn't matter the type of show I do (I occasionally do other shows than reined cowhorse), my horses still need to listen to me.

I side with the OP. She was OK with moving at least twice (which appears to be to accommodate riders, not for safety per se) and accommodated the requests even after that, until it got way ridiculous and she felt her only option was to leave. I think that's pretty sad.
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post #128 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 12:54 PM
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I really dislike the whole dressage people this and dressage people that. It's not a realistic generalization to say ALL dressage people do something that only a subsection do.

The moment of your test is NOT the time or place to try to school a horse on a new object.

I also assure you that all the desensitizing in the world means little if that horse decides something is a big deal. We all should know this. They're not machines. If some people have horses that become so broke they just stand there during whatever that's awesome but to say all horses should be like that isn't facing the reality that most horses won't.

It doesn't matter if a rider "should" do this or that if they're not or if its just not enough. Is it really preferable to have a horse freak out and run through people rather than ask someone to move because their feelings might get hurt?

What would have happened if no one told the OP to move the buggy but it spooked a horse and the buggy ended up trampled? You'd be blaming the rider!
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post #129 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 01:20 PM
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"If the rider thought it's horse might spook, he should have asked us to move! My safety should have been a priority!" I can hear it now... There is really no winning in this situation.
~*~anebel~*~ and jaydee like this.

"The barn taught me passion... Not the passion of winning-but rather the passion that you feel when you have nothing left but your love of something. The passion that is there when exhaustion steals your strength and frustration takes your hope."
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post #130 of 144 Old 03-06-2014, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Strawberry4Me View Post
Eh, I think there is more to the story regardless. 35 meters is far enough to be watching something in another ring. My sense is that out of frustration and embarrassment of having to move- there was/is some exaggeration going on. AND then something happened to warrant being asked to leave. I have been to my fair share of dressage shows- and typically officiators have bigger things to focus on than throwing out some woman and her pram.

Regardless- This thread has turned into a place where we all bash on dressage and how their silly little horses are never trained or desensitized. Which is untrue and ridiculous. When I was working at my old dressage stable- much to people's dismay- when we were starting a horse the first thing we did was call out "the cowboy" to work with horses on desensitizing and trust and natural horsemanship.
Are you trying to convince yourself or others that there must have been something else going on?

It was the first dressage show I had been too. And I went because what little I have seen of dressage it looks to be a beautiful sport. I don't think for a second it's easy and the horses are all la di da. Also you learn from watching those that are better than you.

Yes I was annoyed at what happened hence the title "rant" although I'm very much over it now, and to be honest I do sympathise with the last rider on the day. There is a post from me in here about what I think happened.
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