Discussion of Hunt seat and forward seat
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Riding Horses > English Riding

Discussion of Hunt seat and forward seat

This is a discussion on Discussion of Hunt seat and forward seat within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Show a person laying across horseback
  • Hunt seat jumping position

Like Tree28Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    02-20-2012, 05:41 PM
  #1
Super Moderator
Discussion of Hunt seat and forward seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Godden    

What is perhaps important to we horse lovers who ride 'English' is that there seems to be different terms used in 'horse speak'. I am never sure what 'two point' nor 'hunt seat' describes. Maybe someone could explain, please.

There again to define riding 'English' as being a system devised in England is perhaps also a misnomer when one thinks that the system defined as 'English' is used by almost every country in Europe.
Two point is when the rider remains in the forward seat - this is fine but children are taught to go into two point and stay there, approaching the fence, over it and on landing.
I hate it as it is so dangerous. Christopher Reeve was taught to stay in the two point and I am sure that is why he had such a nasty accident.
Hunt seat is basically two point all the way through the round - none of them would last more than 2 feet after landing over a fence following hounds!

As for why it is called English riding, probably because at one point England was trying to rule a lot of the world!
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    02-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #2
Banned
Two point and huntseat is what a rider does when they hang over the horse because they're not balanced nor have an independent seat.
     
    02-20-2012, 06:15 PM
  #3
Banned
Quote:
Two point and huntseat is what a rider does when they hang over the horse because they're not balanced nor have an independent seat.
Um, no.

I'm hoping this is sarcasm, and that I'm just unable to determine tone?

"hunt seat" and "forward seat" are interchangable terms, and describe a style of riding suitable for riding a horse cross country at speed over obstacles. That it's often done badly does not mean it's not a legitmate term.

Two point is a balanced position with two points of contact with the saddle, meaning the rider's knees. Correct two point has the rider balanced over their stirrups, crotch over the center of the saddle/center of gravity of the horse, buttocks just barely off of the seat. Done correctly by an intermediate or higher rider, it should be completely independent, with the rider not taking any support from the reins or neck. Used by hunt seat riders, jumpers, eventers or anyone who wants to take weight off the horse's back but remain in balance. Constrasted with three-point where the rider sits even closer, crotch touching the saddle, but folded forward from the hip. Can also be called jump position or galloping position, and has a variation known as half-seat.
     
    02-20-2012, 06:25 PM
  #4
Guest
Maura, presumably 'two point', is what Vladimir Littauer calls 'forward riding' ??

This style is what is promoted in Wales for trail riding across wales over uneven terrain.
We would also use it for trotting uphill on tarmac and also for trotting downhill over rough terrain.

Barry
     
    02-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #5
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
Um, no.

I'm hoping this is sarcasm, and that I'm just unable to determine tone?

"hunt seat" and "forward seat" are interchangable terms, and describe a style of riding suitable for riding a horse cross country at speed over obstacles. That it's often done badly does not mean it's not a legitmate term.
I agree with you in that it has a legitimate place in riding - especially when travelling longer distances at speed.

What really does make the hair on the back of my neck stand up is the way it is generally taught in the US with people being taught to get into two point and staying there throughout a round of jumping.
If it is you in the picture then you know that two point is valid between fences especially CC but unless you are sitting up going into and as the horse lands from a fence, especially CC, then you are very insecure.

Even jump jockeys, riding with a two point seat, will be sitting down going into a fence to drive the horse forward and be in a backward seat but slipping the reins, known as hitting the buckle, when they land.
     
    02-20-2012, 06:55 PM
  #6
Guest
Vladimir Littauer was born a Russian and served in a classy Russian cavalry regiment loyal to the Czar. He fought the Germans thru WW1 but lost out during the revolution. He escaped to the US and became an AMerican citizen.

To earn a living he taught riding - especially by way of the Italian system developed by Capt Caprilli an Italian cavalry officer. Littauer's forward riding became the system for Americans who rode English.
Eventually Littauer became the trainer of the post WW2 US International riding teams. He was very, very knowledgeable about how to ride a horse. Riding was his life.
He wrote several books on how to ride in the 'Forward' style.

His system works but has lost some ground to the modern pseudo classical style of riding whereby every one sits bolt upright and firmly seated in the saddle - which isn't such a good idea when charging over Welsh bracken covered uneven hillsides pitted with rabbit holes and bogs

There is room in equitation for more than one system of riding a horse.
Beling and Opus like this.
     
    02-20-2012, 08:22 PM
  #7
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Godden    
There is room in equitation for more than one system of riding a horse.
Truth

And in the course of a hack one may use several of them, transitioning seamlessly from one to another.
Ray MacDonald likes this.
     
    02-20-2012, 09:16 PM
  #8
Banned
Foxhunter,

I have exhausted myself this weekend defending hunters and the American system of forward riding on this board; so I don't have the energy to respond your comments today, but I while respond later.
     
    02-21-2012, 06:30 AM
  #9
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhunter    
I agree with you in that it has a legitimate place in riding - especially when travelling longer distances at speed.

What really does make the hair on the back of my neck stand up is the way it is generally taught in the US with people being taught to get into two point and staying there throughout a round of jumping.
If it is you in the picture then you know that two point is valid between fences especially CC but unless you are sitting up going into and as the horse lands from a fence, especially CC, then you are very insecure.

Even jump jockeys, riding with a two point seat, will be sitting down going into a fence to drive the horse forward and be in a backward seat but slipping the reins, known as hitting the buckle, when they land.
Yep indeed. Half seat, jump seat and forward seat (Eng) and all based on the Caprilli style is well known but I struggle when I see photos on US forums labelled "two point" and "hunt seat". Just not seeing at all the required position to enable the horse to free the back and loins to get his back legs under him or to allow him to stretch his head and neck as he reaches out with front legs.

The freedom required to enable this and change balance quickly if required by taking weight off the back by rising from the saddle by placing weight through the knees and heels is just not what I personally see when folks talk "two point" and "hunt seat" and post photos.

To me there should be a leaning of the upper body forward and maintaining balance over the heels with a good line through the body showing hips pushed back so there's as much weight behind the heels as in front so weight can easily shift forward and back to follow the horse's movement.

Most often though photos show someone lying rigid over the top of the horse with their butt sticking up in the air in a very artificial manner suggesting severe constipation and often when jumping something just 2 feet high from real slow canter!

Oh and yes... I was being sarcastic. I'm English. So of course I was being sarcastic. It's what we do best and right up there with irony.
     
    02-21-2012, 09:01 AM
  #10
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopla    
To me there should be a leaning of the upper body forward and maintaining balance over the heels with a good line through the body showing hips pushed back so there's as much weight behind the heels as in front so weight can easily shift forward and back to follow the horse's movement.

Most often though photos show someone lying rigid over the top of the horse with their butt sticking up in the air in a very artificial manner suggesting severe constipation and often when jumping something just 2 feet high from real slow canter!
Good

Phillip Dutton



Mary King



Double Plus Ungood



     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forward Seat QHriderKE English Riding 4 08-05-2011 03:32 AM
Saddle Seat vs. Hunt Seat CountryJay Horse Tack and Equipment 8 07-10-2011 03:29 PM
Hunt Seat? CharliGirl English Riding 8 07-13-2010 01:42 PM
Lesson - can you learn both hunt seat and saddle seat? jjejjohn English Riding 2 08-04-2009 07:49 PM
Hunt Seat or Saddle Seat? HeydayHunter English Riding 10 07-20-2009 08:16 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0