Getting her collected...HELP!
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Riding Horses > English Riding

Getting her collected...HELP!

This is a discussion on Getting her collected...HELP! within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • "strangle hold with my legs"
  • How to keep my horse collected

Like Tree4Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    10-14-2012, 08:33 PM
  #1
Foal
Getting her collected...HELP!

Hey all!
I recently got a TB mare, She is 10 years old and has had an extensive jumping career so far (up to 3'9 at class A shows) and I got her from a trainer who was downsizing b/c she was moving across state to a different barn. Anyways, She is great, my only problem so far is getting her collected! When I was test-riding her and had the trainer's help on the spot about all her cues, she was great! But now I'm unsure of what is helping or what is flat out confusing her! So, now until the trainer calls me back, im looking around for some help of starting her from base one with flextion and collection, because I can get her to collect at a standstill, but she wont hold it in any gait.
Thanks!
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    10-15-2012, 03:43 PM
  #2
Started
This is a thread where a video would be extremely beneficial. It is hard to say what you are or aren't doing without seeing what is going on.
     
    10-18-2012, 11:02 PM
  #3
Foal
Hmm so what you said about test-riding her and she was great...makes me think she can do it but you aren't asking right. No offense intended. And what you said about her being collected in the halt gave me a clue. Now a horse cannot be collected in the halt because there is zero impulsion. What she has is a headset. And yes a headset cannot be maintained in the gaits because it's not true collection. What you need to do is learn the theory of collection, then perhaps go and try again. And honestly it would be great if you could get an instructor.

Theory of dressage:

A horse's hind end is the engine and it's back is the tracks. The energy needs to be running from the engine to the neck, engaging the muscles in the stomach and neck to carry itself. Imagine that the energy is toothpaste and the bridle is the cap. In order to push the toothpaste up and near the top, you keep the top on and squeeze the toothpaste. So you use the bridle, not to stop the horse, but to contain the energy. Don't hold the reins, just half-halt whenever you have to. Doing lots of bending and counter-flexion while in a steady trot will relax her neck muscles so she can carry herself. Remember to think of sitting up, but slightly away from her neck so she can carry herself easier. Use your seat not the reins to slow her down.

I could go on and on but I could do a much better job if I knew how much you knew or if I saw a video :) message me I'd love to help you!
Kayty and BrieannaKelly like this.
     
    10-21-2012, 11:08 AM
  #4
Yearling
I could certainly use help here, too, and despite the theory in analogies (which, by the way, Kat, your analogy above was very useful, so I imagine it will help the OP), MY problem is eliciting collection with my seat consistently.

I only ride with a trainer, and I still have trouble...I know it's 100% me because the horse I ride collects beautifully for my trainer almost automatically and for me about 50% of the time, so I must be doing something right on occasion, just not consistently enough to believe I am riding her properly at all/most times. If possible I'll get some video of myself today and (IF OK WITH OP) post it, and if the OP can't get any video right away of herself, you can critique me and possibly help us both?
Sooo frustrating to me, as I'm betting it is for the PO, as well, because when you know your horse is capable, it MUST BE something the rider isn't doing/communicating correctly! (Great thread, OP! Thanks for putting it out there! I hope you don't mind if I learn along with you?)...If you'd rather I don't get involved, I'll be happy to start a second thread on the subject. This is YOUR THREAD...I was just happy someone else asked something that I've found hard to bring up!! :0)
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    10-24-2012, 10:06 PM
  #5
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back2Horseback    
I could certainly use help here, too, and despite the theory in analogies (which, by the way, Kat, your analogy above was very useful, so I imagine it will help the OP), MY problem is eliciting collection with my seat consistently.

I only ride with a trainer, and I still have trouble...I know it's 100% me because the horse I ride collects beautifully for my trainer almost automatically and for me about 50% of the time, so I must be doing something right on occasion, just not consistently enough to believe I am riding her properly at all/most times. If possible I'll get some video of myself today and (IF OK WITH OP) post it, and if the OP can't get any video right away of herself, you can critique me and possibly help us both?
Sooo frustrating to me, as I'm betting it is for the PO, as well, because when you know your horse is capable, it MUST BE something the rider isn't doing/communicating correctly! (Great thread, OP! Thanks for putting it out there! I hope you don't mind if I learn along with you?)...If you'd rather I don't get involved, I'll be happy to start a second thread on the subject. This is YOUR THREAD...I was just happy someone else asked something that I've found hard to bring up!! :0)
Posted via Mobile Device

Hey thanks! I would do my best to offer any advice to you as well if you post a video :)
     
    10-24-2012, 11:24 PM
  #6
Foal
The best advice I ever had about collecting was to sit real hard in the seat, shorten your reins, sit up real tall, and ride uphill. It was about a year ago that I bought a thoroughbred quarter horse cross, and I totally understand where the taking over comes from, they are huge massive horses and they are very strong. But past that whenever my horse would start taking over or getting strong,i would do that and it really helped me out. Hope it helps you too!
     
    10-25-2012, 12:26 PM
  #7
Yearling
Actually that is GREAT advice, Kinsey, & phrased for even mental slow-pokes like myself to "get" what you mean! It's funny, because Victory doesn't get super strong or anything but she fails to use her back and her back END unless I ask correctly & she falls on the forehand, hollows out and I SUSPECT it's because I am SO CAUTIOUS WITH HER MOUTH and ride with SUCH LIGHT CONTACT while simultanously not driving AT ALL with my seat, she just gives up the effort!

I'm always saying to my trainer "OK NOW my butt's in the saddle!" because SOMEHOW I've learned to ride with my butt like, HOVERING EVER SO LIGHTLY in the saddle, rather than PLANTING MY ****ED A** and squeezing my cheeks together a bit.

I often wonder if its something left over from my jumper days, when I'd half seat the canter, two point the trot whenever possible and just generally NOT CONNECT WITH MY TUSH! These dressage equines NEED TO FEEL THAT BUTT FIRMLY IN THE SADDLE! Not necessarily digging in and driving HARD, but those who work from the SEAT NEED A SEAT TO WORK FROM...Duhhh!

She can feel if I have 1/10th my weight to the inside and she'll come off the rail. She couldn't care LESS what I'm doing with her face...its all about mt balance in my tush. Darned well-trained horses!! (wink)!
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    10-25-2012, 08:16 PM
  #8
Foal
Hmm...I hate to come across as disrespectful or anything...I have to disagree with Kinsey. Collecting your horse is a bit more delicate business then just "sit real hard in the seat, shorten your reins, sit up real tall, and ride uphill." Although you can force your horse into a headset that way, it's not really correct. See if I did that to my horse he would immediately get tense and although I was holding his head down he would be fighting me intensely and it would be terrible LOL I'm just sitting here thinking about it...

Of course every horse is different. My horse has a tendency to become tense and to stiffen up if I'm not being correct.

My number one tip is to promote relaxation as much as possible. You should not have to hold your horse into position...I'm not saying that when you are teaching the horse a new movement you won't have to hold him together a bit to help but the goal is self-carriage. It's not as fancy and blah as it sounds. Basically you should not have to have a death grip on the reins, you should have contact but should always be thinking of letting go. You need to test your horse, constantly, even when you think/know it isn't going to go well. The more you do this, the more relaxed they become, and the easier it is to get them truly connected over their back.

Hope this makes sense;)
Kayty and tinyliny like this.
     
    10-25-2012, 08:21 PM
  #9
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back2Horseback    
Actually that is GREAT advice, Kinsey, & phrased for even mental slow-pokes like myself to "get" what you mean! It's funny, because Victory doesn't get super strong or anything but she fails to use her back and her back END unless I ask correctly & she falls on the forehand, hollows out and I SUSPECT it's because I am SO CAUTIOUS WITH HER MOUTH and ride with SUCH LIGHT CONTACT while simultanously not driving AT ALL with my seat, she just gives up the effort!

I'm always saying to my trainer "OK NOW my butt's in the saddle!" because SOMEHOW I've learned to ride with my butt like, HOVERING EVER SO LIGHTLY in the saddle, rather than PLANTING MY ****ED A** and squeezing my cheeks together a bit.

I often wonder if its something left over from my jumper days, when I'd half seat the canter, two point the trot whenever possible and just generally NOT CONNECT WITH MY TUSH! These dressage equines NEED TO FEEL THAT BUTT FIRMLY IN THE SADDLE! Not necessarily digging in and driving HARD, but those who work from the SEAT NEED A SEAT TO WORK FROM...Duhhh!

She can feel if I have 1/10th my weight to the inside and she'll come off the rail. She couldn't care LESS what I'm doing with her face...its all about mt balance in my tush. Darned well-trained horses!! (wink)!
Posted via Mobile Device
Forgot to address this;) silly me. Now see here...light contact is good. And while you must be careful not to drive your butt into the saddle, your seat and core is one of the MOST important factors in getting your horse collected. I took like 5 or 6 lunge lessons on my horse, and immediately afterwards I could get him to collect ten times better than I ever could before just because I was learning to use my seat better. BUT I want to emphasize that you can't always be riding in a driving seat. A driving seat is always pushing, always asking for more. However, this can cause the horse to become unbalanced because they just get fast.

To keep a horse moving along, you should use your legs and your whip. Keep a mobile yet fairly relaxed seat. You can use your butt when asking for changes in gaits or half-halts..but other than that keep it relaxed!! :)
     
    10-26-2012, 12:57 AM
  #10
Yearling
Oh absolutely! To tell the truth, I still can't quite figure out WHAT EXACTLY a "driving seat" ACTUAKKis...all I know is that I have a really hard time SITTING on my SEAT...like, I'm not actually riding in the saddle unless I'm doing no stirrup work...it's more like I'm riding from my balls of my feet in the stirrups, NOT relaxing INTO the saddle, and not giving the horse that firm contact point. As well, I do keep VERY LIGHT contact on her mouth...juuust enough to feel the corners with my ring fingers, & when I try to get her to round out and push her back UP into the saddle, I give a slight bit of pressure at the 4th finger, alternating between my left and right hand fingers, sit up, look up, and give an upward stroking slide of my heels on the sides of her belly...that with a slight squeeze but not a kick or a strangle-hold with my legs. I also TRY TO REMEMBER TO ALLOW EACH side of my BUTTOCK EVEN, balanced contact with the saddle. THAT'S the part I mess up with, & thus liked Kinseys advice about planting the buttocks "really hard" in the saddle (as this is my "forgotten contact" point); that will help me remember to involve that body part equally! ;0)
Posted via Mobile Device
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to get your horse more collected? queenie112 Horse Riding 29 12-19-2012 11:17 PM
Help with getting my colt collected... MangoRoX87 Western Riding 3 10-29-2011 09:34 PM
Getting Collected. crimson88 Horse Training 8 09-25-2011 08:18 PM
Is she collected? Bugs Bunny Horse Training 23 07-24-2011 07:29 PM
Being Collected Question cjessy Horse Talk 4 09-19-2008 10:53 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0