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Horse won't budge!!

This is a discussion on Horse won't budge!! within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Any suggestions to get a horse forward who won't budge when ridden
  • My horse wont move forward, kicks out and bites, what to do?

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    01-04-2012, 08:32 AM
  #21
Trained
Savvy - so can you explain those horses that the best of Parelli's professionals just can't work with using PP methods? But that other methods work just fine for?

For the record I do use a modified version of Parelli's groundwork. I just don't want to ride his way.

Saranda - it's worked wonders with three of my horses to date that are completely different personality-wise and will be awesome with my filly too, no doubt, when she's under saddle. I had a bold and cheeky TOTAL lazybones little Welshie who there was no way you could ride him without a whip, you HAD to have the whip there even after re-educating him or you'd be doing massive flying kicks every two strides. He would canter a whole jumpers course without breaking by the time I outgrew him, and had I asked it of him, I suspect I'd have gotten a cross country course. Then there was my nervy Standardbred who had no forward to speak of - that was a horse that would get incredibly offended if I used any stronger of an aid than HE deemed necessary. And now my forward-moving-but-lazy Anglo (yes he is both, sometimes both at once!). I've never ridden a horse where increasing the pressure until you get the result you want didn't work.

My attitude with moving forward is that say there's a branch about to fall on you... you've got exactly two seconds to get that forward active trot/canter/whatever or you're going to get squished. You don't have TIME to *****foot around with a horse that isn't wanting to listen. So you need your transitions (ALL of them, including downwards ones) just that snappy that you don't scare yourself to death when that tree branch lands right behind you (or in front of you if you're talking downwards transitions), because you've got plenty of room and you're not going to get squished.

Why I say this is because a good GO button is absolutely vitally important in any horse that's used for any discipline. In fact I consider forward to be more important than stop! But, without the four basics of stop, go, left turn and right turn, you can't even begin to work on anything else. The horse needs to be listening to YOU, going YOUR pace, and IMO as long as you're not abusing the animal to get the results, who cares about the method used?
     
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    01-04-2012, 08:44 AM
  #22
Super Moderator
My attitude with moving forward is that say there's a branch about to fall on you..

Same here. I sometimes focus my thoughts/energy on the idea that the ground is going to collapse under us in a few seconds, so we move NOW. It seemed that it helped him to understand the idea, too. When I say move, then it has really, really good reasons. And recently it saved us both from possible injuries, when he spooked under saddle from a dog that appeared suddenly in the arena, jumped out of it on the road (my bad, he jumped straight onto icy pavement, so I hesitated to use emergency brakes because I feared we might both fall), and then I saw a car coming straight at us from a turn. Just because he responds so good to my "MOVE, the ground is collapsing!!" cue, he did not freeze in front of the car, but leaped into canter, just as I had asked, the same second I had asked, thus saving us both. It was a scare, but it proved to me once more, how important it is to teach the horse to be really, really responsive.
     
    01-04-2012, 08:51 AM
  #23
Trained
Yep I've had that recently too. With my bloke a good stop is as important as forward because he is very bi-polar (typical bloody Arab) and will be a total slug one day and then a nutcase the next. His stop, I'm sure, saved my life the other day when he spooked forwards and we were riding towards a busy road with my reins held at the buckle. I had exactly two strides to get him halted and this, guys, is from a panicked half-bolt. His go has saved me too, but not as recently so I don't remember details.
     
    01-04-2012, 09:00 AM
  #24
Yearling
I honestly think that the sensitivity of the go button depends on its job and rider. Our school horses being schoolies are hand picked for a stiff go button. The kids are taught to squeeze squeeze harder start 'slapping' and MEAN it. Often all that is required if they are infected is squeeze / squeeze harder and maybe a tap ( this is the littlies I'm talking about) however when one of our more advanced riders get on you see these horses moving with almost effort. Often the riders energy coming up is enough.

Essentially the theory is ask quietly first and get louder and louder until the horses response matches your asking.

If the problem repeats ask louder faster.




Rachelgem I too work with fjords and love em
But know they are a rule unto themselves! Half bulldozer! I have used more force with a fjord then I would dream of using on anything else! I know your pain!

The theory behind any ask should be the same whether stop, go sideways, forwards, turn, backwards, move that shoulder etc

Start quietly get louder and louder make sure you have some backup for your command. Ie squeeze, squeeze harder, tap whip, harder, decent flick now, harder, etc

ETA I also train under a brilliant woman with parelli bases. She got jack of a alot of his money making so is no longer a certified instructor. Our basis is in parelli but we then apply that to 'real life' situations, her passion is dressage mine jumping.

Whilst in most scenarios I would not want a move or die feeling, it is sometimes neccesarry so it is vital to have that emergency go button, just as the emerency stop. Everything I work with is taught to move off increasing pressure but must also cope with GO NOW

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    01-04-2012, 09:06 AM
  #25
Foal
I have not come across a horse that you cannot do Parelli with! A lot of horses are harder to work with as they do not like the idea much, but take the time it takes so it takes less time. And to what you said about the lead mare. In the herd where I ride, my horse is the lead mare. Now I have become her lead mare. If my horse gets in my space, I get her out. No question about it. I am like another horse to her, my carrot stick could be my body or my leg. If she comes into my space, I would kick my stick out at her, and she'll think, wow, she's my lead mare. If she has not done anything wrong, just not moving, I will send her, (like pulling faces, ears back), lift my carrot stick (biting towards her), swing my string(swishing tail, kick out leg) and then hit her (like bite or kick).
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    01-04-2012, 09:07 AM
  #26
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinella    


Rachelgem I too work with fjords and love em
But know they are a rule unto themselves! Half bulldozer! I have used more force with a fjord then I would dream of using on anything else! I know your pain!


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Yeah, its sometimes hard! When I ride other horses im like, wow, this horse goes and I barely have to touch it!
     
    01-04-2012, 09:13 AM
  #27
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by savvygirl559    
I have not come across a horse that you cannot do Parelli with! A lot of horses are harder to work with as they do not like the idea much, but take the time it takes so it takes less time. And to what you said about the lead mare. In the herd where I ride, my horse is the lead mare. Now I have become her lead mare. If my horse gets in my space, I get her out. No question about it. I am like another horse to her, my carrot stick could be my body or my leg. If she comes into my space, I would kick my stick out at her, and she'll think, wow, she's my lead mare. If she has not done anything wrong, just not moving, I will send her, (like pulling faces, ears back), lift my carrot stick (biting towards her), swing my string(swishing tail, kick out leg) and then hit her (like bite or kick).
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I don't disagree with you, any horse can do parelli, any horse can be beaten in to doing things, or use NH or monty roberts or traditional methods- its the person teaching it.

My point is, you seem to have to 'ask' for a lot of things.. for riding, for moving etc and you have a thing called a carrot stick which is essentially a whip, and you've still got in near her, sending her away etc that I do with a normal lunge whip or the end of a rope. You hit her (bite/kick) like I use my whip to make my horse move forwards.
     
    01-04-2012, 09:15 AM
  #28
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelgem    
Yeah, its sometimes hard! When I ride other horses im like, wow, this horse goes and I barely have to touch it!

Ah, we had a fjord come to our riding club from Poland, manager fell in love and bought it.. worst idea ever, she'd only pulled carts.

Best horse for begginer adults, because she would NOT go ANYWHERE you'd break a sweat in a walk
     
    01-04-2012, 09:38 AM
  #29
Foal
Yes I do ask, then harder and harder and harder, I then demand, I am the herd leader so she will do what I ask her, but I do it as if I am a horse. That is the point of parelli! That is why it is natural!
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    01-04-2012, 09:42 AM
  #30
Foal
And a carrot stick is not a whip! It is an extension of your arm. Horses have long bodies, we have tall bodies. The carrot stick symbolises our long body and the string represents our tail, it is not a whip!
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