Hunter Jumpers: Arch in the Lower Back? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 06:57 PM
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It's a flaw known in the hunter ring as "duck butt". :)
lol, never heard that one. Around here it is called "porno butt"

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Because when you arch your lower back it lifts your upper body up so if the horse pops their head up your upper body is higher up so you won't get hit. The more I think about it though the less sense it makes.
Well, I am glad that it is making less sense to you.

How are you positioned when you are on approach to a fence? Is your Upper Body ahead of the verticle? Are you closing your hip angle before you are even over the fence? Do you allow your horse to close the angle and come up to you, or do you close the angle yourself?

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post #12 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 07:53 PM
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straight backs with sholders back. No arching. Its dangerous and ugly :P
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post #13 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the continued replies!

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Originally Posted by upnover View Post
Arching your back is NOT "something hunters do". I think often it isn't penalized and unfortunately a lot of people think it's much better then roaching your back (if you read the above posts, people are right when they say it's just as bad!). However, I'm wondering if Maura is on to something about fixing a habit. [...] But often if you have a bad habit you have to exaggerate the opposite to actually get it correctly. Perhaps this wording of "arch your lower back and stick out your butt" -while not entirely correct- gets you to ride correctly. The hard thing about being a trainer is to find the right words/explanation to get the correct results from a rider. But the again maybe your trainer is mistaken. There are a lot of riders who go around like this. It's a flaw known in the hunter ring as "duck butt". :)
I too have been wondering if it was primarily to fix my habit of breaking at the lower back. She did tell me that riders in other disciplines refer to hunters as "duck-butts," but did not describe it as a flaw, rather as something that all the hunters do. But, like you say, it might be that I actually ride correctly when I try to arch my back and stick my butt out. I will have to ask her to clarify what she means and what I am doing.
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post #14 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer View Post

Well, I am glad that it is making less sense to you.

How are you positioned when you are on approach to a fence? Is your Upper Body ahead of the verticle? Are you closing your hip angle before you are even over the fence? Do you allow your horse to close the angle and come up to you, or do you close the angle yourself?
Here is a pic of me jumping (I figured this might give you a better idea then me trying to explain; I'm not good at explaining).

Division A - 2'3 Riders - Haleys-Dad's Photos

Normally when I jump my back is more arched then that but I don't have stirrups so that is why. This is the only decent/recent pic that I could find of me jumping.
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post #15 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 12:56 AM
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No stirrups? Nice.

The only glaring things I see in that photo are 1) you're jumping ahead and 2) you're gripping with your knee, which has caused your lower leg to pivot back.

"Always be yourself. Unless you can be a unicorn. Then, always be a unicorn."
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post #16 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 07:23 AM
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but did not describe it as a flaw, rather as something that all the hunters do
An overarched back or duck butt is never correct. If you look at photos of the top hunter seat equitation riders and Medal Maclay winners, you won't see many duck butts.

In my area of Virginia, you won't see it much in local shows either, it's penalized as a form fault. You might see an otherwise effective rider pin in spite of it, but you'll never see a rider pin because. I can't speak for other areas of the country and other show circuits.

One of the ways the disciplines really differ is that a round back, or breaking at the lower back, is fairly common in eventers and jumper riders, but is considered a very serious form flaw in hunter seat eq.

Without photos from the OP, I'm going to continue to assume that her instructor is trying to correct a round back, and get to a more correct, functional positions. If that's not the case, I can only assume that on their local show circuit it's judged differently, in which case I'd advise the OP to get some equitation text books and some magazine subscriptions and aim for higher than that local circuit.
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post #17 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Strange View Post
No stirrups? Nice.

The only glaring things I see in that photo are 1) you're jumping ahead and 2) you're gripping with your knee, which has caused your lower leg to pivot back.
I'm working on not jumping ahead (I have a huge issue with this :P). And whenever I don't have stirrups I grip with my knee (bad I know) so that doesn't happen when I do have stirrups (most of the time)

Thanks for the tips :)
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post #18 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 09:03 PM
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Well, the photos speak. I see that you are grasping with you knee and your lower leg is all over the place with no secure contact. You need to let go with your knee and put more contact with the inside of your calf. This will help hold your lower leg at the girth where it belongs. Your lower leg is MUCH more important than arching your back, which seems to be your main concern in those photos. Until your lower leg improves, you will have a very insecure jumping position, IME.



Quote:
Originally Posted by horsequeen373 View Post
I'm working on not jumping ahead (I have a huge issue with this :P). And whenever I don't have stirrups I grip with my knee (bad I know) so that doesn't happen when I do have stirrups (most of the time)

Thanks for the tips :)

Sorry, but I see this in every photo.
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post #19 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Well, the photos speak. I see that you are grasping with you knee and your lower leg is all over the place with no secure contact. You need to let go with your knee and put more contact with the inside of your calf. This will help hold your lower leg at the girth where it belongs. Your lower leg is MUCH more important than arching your back, which seems to be your main concern in those photos. Until your lower leg improves, you will have a very insecure jumping position, IME.






Sorry, but I see this in every photo.
I know I do that all the time when I don't have stirrups but I'm better at it when I do have stirrups (key word; better).
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post #20 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 10:00 PM
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Wow, I'm no master of jumping, but if my leg was that unstable, I wouldn't be allowed to jump crossrails. I don't know how long you've been with this trainer, but she's not doing you any favors judgeing from those pics. If you've been able to stay on in spite of that, you're obviously an athletic and capable rider. I'm sure you'd go far with proper instruction.

Aside from that, what saddle is that on the lighter chestnut colored horse? Sorry, but I'm saddle shopping and looking everywhere and anywhere for ideas.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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