Hunter Seat to Saddle Seat - I Don't Think So! - Page 2
 
 

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Hunter Seat to Saddle Seat - I Don't Think So!

This is a discussion on Hunter Seat to Saddle Seat - I Don't Think So! within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Sardar horse
  • Saddleseat equitation

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    03-08-2013, 11:43 AM
  #11
Weanling
SS should not put you in a chair seat (thighs high/etc), in ALL seats (by the usef rules...) ear/shoulder/hip/heel should be in alignment, and there should always be a straight line from elbow to horses mouth. Yes, the hips should be more open, which almost makes for a lower leg too stretched/calves almost off. It should NOT be about raising the hands however (there is a straight line but horses are (articially) high), but not resting them too low either. Affectations of style (over doing it are everywhere).

The difference is that one is (almost) behind the motion in ss, with it in dressage, slightly in front of it in h/j (because of moving at speed and over fences).

Least we all forget people like Bill Steinkraus/Wofford/etc rode ss before they rode huntseat/jumpers/evented!

Keep the thumb onto the forefinger to keep a connection and prevent dropping the rein. Erect posture will help prevent stumbling/loss of balance/etc.
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    03-09-2013, 10:44 AM
  #12
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by verona1016    
Not even close

Saddle seat puts you very much into a "chair seat" with your legs out in front of you. The saddle itself sits you far back on the horse's back and is usually pretty flat. Dressage is all about achieving a long leg with your heel, hip and ear all aligned in a vertical line- if you took the horse out from under the rider, she should be able to balance in that same position- not fall over backwards or forwards. The saddles have deep seats, often with various padded blocks to keep the legs in position.

Saddle seat:


Dressage:
Oh! Thanks for correcting me! I mean it - that was very helpful!

I've taken two saddle seat lessons, but my next two are for driving. I'm excited. My instructor told me she old school me in hunt seat if I brought my own saddle, so this barn would up working in my favour.
     
    03-16-2013, 10:03 AM
  #13
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by equitate    
SS should not put you in a chair seat (thighs high/etc), in ALL seats (by the usef rules...) ear/shoulder/hip/heel should be in alignment, and there should always be a straight line from elbow to horses mouth. Yes, the hips should be more open, which almost makes for a lower leg too stretched/calves almost off. It should NOT be about raising the hands however (there is a straight line but horses are (articially) high), but not resting them too low either. Affectations of style (over doing it are everywhere).

The difference is that one is (almost) behind the motion in ss, with it in dressage, slightly in front of it in h/j (because of moving at speed and over fences).

Least we all forget people like Bill Steinkraus/Wofford/etc rode ss before they rode huntseat/jumpers/evented!

Keep the thumb onto the forefinger to keep a connection and prevent dropping the rein. Erect posture will help prevent stumbling/loss of balance/etc.
Thank you for the correction because I was about to say the same thing. People often times think the riders position in SS is a chair seat but it's not. As the poster said above, there should still be an alignment from ear through the hip through the heel. The difference is the leg and heel are pushed away from the horse and the rider is positioned farther back on the horse to free up the movement in the front end (though that does not mean the horse is not bringing its hind end under themselves and collected because it actually requires even more collection to get that action).

The other difference is the full bridle. In SS you ride with a full bridle (a weymouth bit or double bit). So you have 2 sets of reins instead of one. In the simplest terms curb brings it in and the snaffle brings it up. I will say, learning SS teaches you to have soft hands because you can't ride with a full bridle and yank the horses head into place. You can't get away with as much as you can when just riding with a snaffle. It's the slightest movement with you pinky and wrist. Plus the muscle and endurance required to keep your back arched, shoulders back, legs back and away, and hands up is incredible.
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    03-16-2013, 12:25 PM
  #14
Trained
I don't do saddle seat riding and probably never will. However, I just did an Internet search for photos of "saddleseat horse championship", and most of what I found looked like this:



Not much shoulder - hip - heel alignment there! Same here:


It is a style of riding linked to the past, and very few riders in the past (before 1965ish) rode with shoulder - hip - heel aligned. This picture is from a 1951 Boy Scout manual showing what was then considered the proper way to ride (general purpose riding):



Jackie Kennedy riding in the background, probably in the 50s:



That was just how the vast majority of people rode 50+ years ago. One can argue if it is good or bad, but riding that has its roots in the pre-1960 time frame probably will not have a shoulder - hip - heel alignment.
     
    03-16-2013, 02:31 PM
  #15
Weanling
In the video of the Saddleseat Equitation Senior Championship, the back of her heel was absolutely aligned with her ear and shoulder and hip. It may look different to a hunter because the stirrup is a little longer and the leg is pushed away from the body. As for the top picture, it is quite possible that that is not an equitation class. When a rider is riding in a pleasure class they are more interested in the look of the horse then the position of the rider. So you will see a lot of exaggerated leg pushed forward and the rider may sit farther back and have their hands higher because they are focused more on pushing the horse on and setting him up. But that is not the correct form.
     
    03-16-2013, 04:02 PM
  #16
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by uflrh9y    
In the video of the Saddleseat Equitation Senior Championship, the back of her heel was absolutely aligned with her ear and shoulder and hip...
Hmmm...whatever was I thinking?



     
    03-16-2013, 04:27 PM
  #17
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    






Jackie Kennedy riding in the background, probably in the 50s:



That was just how the vast majority of people rode 50+ years ago. One can argue if it is good or bad, but riding that has its roots in the pre-1960 time frame probably will not have a shoulder - hip - heel alignment.
You found a picture of Jackie Kennedy turned around speaking to someone, not the best photo to represent her normal position. Jackie Kennedy rode in a beautiful forward seat, as did her children and many many others at that time. I am going to guess the above photo was from the 1960s and was a photo from the Freudy family archives. It is available online.

Freudy Photos - Kennedy
     
    03-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #18
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
Hmmm...whatever was I thinking?



I'm really not sure what your point is. You said you have never ridden SS and don't plan on it, and a few people who have ridden and know about it have said the proper way. I guess I could go through every frame of a video of a Hunt Seat Champion in any given show and find a time when their form was not perfect (though I just don't have the time nor the inclination to do so). I will say the top picture, if you move the line back so it runs to the back of the heel it would go right where it should taking in consideration that it is not a straight on shot but a picture taken from above at a slight angle so it's like trying to judge a conformation of a horse looking at a picture that is taken at an angle). Not to mention it also depends on the angle of the shot (which is why the bottom picture looks so off IMO). Plus, she was the only one in the class. If you get a chance to see riders at Arab Nationals or even better the US Saddleseat World Cup Team, you will definitely see correct form. I don't think that girl had the best form throughout the class at all, but that doesn't disprove what we have said.

Anyway, I've trained SS and my daughter rides at a Championship Arab stable where they train and show SS and I know the correct way. And if you go online and read an article from anyone worth their salt on equitation it would say the same thing I and the others have said.
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    03-16-2013, 04:44 PM
  #19
Trained
Admission straight up, I know nothing about saddle seat.

I was amazed to read here that there should be a shoulder hip heel line in SS, I would never have guessed it based on my limited exposure, but a google search of images https://www.google.ca/search?q=saddl...w=1366&bih=628 if that works, I am struggling to see any lined up.
bsms likes this.
     
    03-16-2013, 05:04 PM
  #20
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by updownrider    
You found a picture of Jackie Kennedy turned around speaking to someone, not the best photo to represent her normal position...
Hmmm...









     

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