I got a few questions about collection and getting the correct canter lead
 
 

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I got a few questions about collection and getting the correct canter lead

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  • How to collect the canter
  • Help my horse doesnt respond to my leg and when i kick him in i canter i get worried

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  • 1 Post By Valentina

 
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    08-08-2012, 01:06 AM
  #1
Foal
Question I got a few questions about collection and getting the correct canter lead

Okay so I want to teach my horse to collect and arch his neck, but I'm not sure how to do this, any suggestions?

And he always has trouble getting the canter lead that I ask for, either it be the right or left one. I have been doing a fair bit of lunging to try and build muscle, but as soon as I get in the saddle he won't listen to my leg signals. I have tried a few things, but he won't listen? He also won't listen to my leg signals when I ask him to move out?

Also when I do lunge him (I don't do it every day so he doesn't get bored) he won't stop when a say whoa or anything?

Any help would be awesome :)
     
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    08-08-2012, 02:33 AM
  #2
Super Moderator
Countrychick,

Do you have anyone who could be a kind of trainer for you? I gather that you have a variety of things that aren't working for you and your horse. Having a teacher to help you get started will be much better . It's because all of those things are connected to each other.

If you have trouble moving your horse out, it can be becuase he doesn't see you as someone that he should have to listen to. You have not given him a reason to listen to you. Some might say that's a whip, and it might be all that is necessary, but more than likely, you will get more overall change by learning to do some good ground work with him. Learning how to make him move his feet whereever you ask, how to make him go forward and such.

If you can't stop him by verbal cues, he might not know them. You use body language. Are you lunging on a long line? A medium line? In a round pen free?


I would not worry about how his head or neck arches yet. Totallly put that aside for a bit, ok?

Work on getting to go forward and stop. Get those two first.
     
    08-08-2012, 05:50 AM
  #3
Green Broke
Collection isn't about head or neck position. That is a result of collection. Having or getting their head or neck in the collected position doesn't make the horse collected. A collected horse is working from their rear end and having their back rounded. That will put their head and neck into the correct position.

Tiny is right. Don't worry about getting your horse collected when you are having issues with just the basics. Get a trainer or an experienced horse person to help you in person. They can show you what to do and correct what you are doing wrong.

To get him to go off your leg cues, ask with your leg(s), tell with a cluck, and demand with a crop.

Since he doesn't respond to your leg cues, it's not surprising that he doesn't get the correct lead. Once he responds to leg cues, then you can work on the correct lead. How are you asking for it? One way you could try to get the correct lead is trot him in a circle. Trot him in a circle to the left for him to go into left lead.

So what is the correct way of asking for a certain lead? I may be wrong but this is what I understand it to be. Let's say you want a left lead. First use the right leg back to move his rear over just a bit, this sets up for the correct lead. Getting him to move his butt over puts his body in the same position as going in a circle. Next cue for the transition with your left leg. If at first he goes into the wrong lead, slow him down so he drops out of a canter and ask again. Repeat until he gets the correct one. Once he gets it, let him be and let him just go forward. As he catches on to what you want, it's just a matter of practicing it.
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    08-08-2012, 07:44 AM
  #4
Showing
Before you even try to get him into the lope/canter, you need to be able to identify when a particular hind leg is on the ground as he walks. Get a friend or family member to help you with this. At first you will want to look but the goal is that you can feel it by the rise and fall of the hips. You will use this to help your horse strike off. When going to the left, his right hind will be leaving the ground when you ask. This gives him a second or two to respond. He can then push with that hind with more impulsion and will be on the correct lead. Horses read body language so when you are lunging him he's doing what he thinks you want. Try changing up how you are doing it. I'll tell a student to try one thing and notice how the horse responds. Do it three or four times and if the horse responds the same way, then that is what he understands. So keep an open mind and let him train you. :)
     
    08-08-2012, 09:56 AM
  #5
Weanling
If would venture to guess that the issue with him not getting the correct lead when you're in the saddle has less to do with him ignoring your leg aids and more to do with something else going on with your body that's making it difficult for him to pick up the correct lead. It may be a timing issue, as Saddlebag has suggested, or it may be that you are inadvertently shifting your body weight or turning your pelvis in such a way that you have effectively shut down that inside hind, thus giving you the wrong lead.

That was my long-winded way of saying that there is likely something going on beyond mere disobedience to the aids, and it would be very helpful to have some knowledgeable eyes on the ground to help you figure that out.
     
    08-08-2012, 11:06 AM
  #6
Weanling
Your post stated "Okay so I want to teach my horse to collect and arch his neck, but I'm not sure how to do this, any suggestions?

And he always has trouble getting the canter lead that I ask for, either it be the right or left one. I have been doing a fair bit of lunging to try and build muscle, but as soon as I get in the saddle he won't listen to my leg signals. I have tried a few things, but he won't listen? 1. He also won't listen to my leg signals when I ask him to move out?

Also when I do lunge him (I don't do it every day so he doesn't get bored) he won't stop when I say whoa or anything? "

So I'm going to address your questions - but in the order YOU need to address the problems. Also, before I start, remember that horses are like children - you need to be consistent and act/ride the same way ALL the time! If you ride with light aides one day and the next day get back into "nagging" mode he will ignore you - the idea is to get him so tuned into you that when you do something (like shift in your saddle) he reacts as he's been trained - flying change, turn, halt, etc.

1. He also won't listen to my leg signals when I ask him to move out? (This is also related to: he won't listen to my leg"). This is you first problem you need to solve. So EVERY time you get on this horse you need to a. Ask lightly for the forward - halt to walk, walk to trot, etc. The response should be immediate. If when you ask he ignores OR gives you a half hearted response (takes 1 step and stops, moves his haunches but not his front legs, etc) you need to give him a VERY STRONG boot forward. Now - here's the catch - once you kick him VERY HARD like this if he gallops forward you can NOT pull back, instead you have to allow him to leap forward into any gait as long as it's forward. After a few strides you can slowly bring him back to the gait you originally asked for. So if you asked for a walk frmo the halt and he didn't move (or didn't move much) you boot him hard with both legs, allow him to canter/gallop forward without pulling on his mouth, then after several strides you slowly bring him back to the gait you desire. Remember you need to do this EVERY time you ride or he will not understand he is expected to react immediately to LIGHT aides - not so light that he flies forward every time your legs contact his sides BUT not having to boot him or "nag" him to start trotting/etc. This also means you need to be able to keep your legs from bumping his sides when you don't want him to react - so when he's trotting nice and steady at the tempo you want your legs should be "quiet".

2. He takes the incorrect canter lead. If he is fine taking the correct lead in the pasture and on the lead line then the problem is YOU. Horses take the lead indicated by riders weight and hip position. So for left lead the riders left hip is forward and weight on the left seat bone. Reverse that for the right lead. If you have problems with pushing one seatbone forward then pull the opposite one back - in other words if you find you can't push your right seatbone forward then pull your left seatbone (hip) back. The riders (inside) leg should be at the girth - that means for left lead canter the left hip is forward and weighted, right hip is back, left leg on the girth, right leg slightly behind the girth. Reverse this for right lead canter. If you can't get it following these directions you'll need someone on the ground to tell you what you are doing incorrectly.

3. he won't stop when I say whoa - This ties into #1. You need to use standard words and/or sounds for the horse on the lunge line - horse doesn't read minds so don't assume horse translates WHOA into Halt or Stop. Be loud enough and firm enough so there is no doubt what you are asking horse to do. Also the lunge line is held in the leading hand and the whip in the driving hand - with the horse positioned inbetween the 2 hands.

I suggest the following commands on the lunge line:
WHOA - for halt.
Walk On - for walk
TTTRRRRRRooTT for trot
CAN TER - for canter

So train this by asking horse to walk forward and halt MANY times until he gets it right before allowing him to go faster. Practice whoa, walk on, whoa. If he doesn't WHOA right away then snap the front of the lunge line while loudly saying WHOA. Like in #1 above - horse is to listen and respond immediately. After horse gets walk/trot/halt OK only then add canter.

4. I want to teach my horse to collect and arch his neck. You are asking for 2 different things but the neck arch will come with collection (if done correctly). You can NOT get this working until you get #1 working, and to be honest you can start to work towards this but true collection takes a lot of time and correct training.

First stepping stone towards collection is forward. In order to collect the horse horse must be stepping underneath it's body with it's hind legs, enabling the horse to carry more weight on the hind legs.

Then once you have forward the rider must be able to have enough ELASTIC contact with the horses mouth to allow horse to go forward while helping the horse to start "sitting" more on it's hind end (bending the hocks). This naturally shortens the horses frame, making the horse more uphill. At this point the rider will need to shorten the reins, since they will be looser than normal contact, since horse will now have LESS weight on it's forehand. That will start the "neck arching" you want - which is a by-product of collection.
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    08-09-2012, 02:05 AM
  #7
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny    
Countrychick,

Do you have anyone who could be a kind of trainer for you?
I gather that you have a variety of things that aren't working for you and your horse. Having a teacher to help you get started will be much better . It's because all of those things are connected to each other.

If you have trouble moving your horse out, it can be becuase he doesn't see you as someone that he should have to listen to. You have not given him a reason to listen to you. Some might say that's a whip, and it might be all that is necessary, but more than likely, you will get more overall change by learning to do some good ground work with him. Learning how to make him move his feet whereever you ask, how to make him go forward and such.

If you can't stop him by verbal cues, he might not know them. You use body language. Are you lunging on a long line? A medium line? In a round pen free?


I would not worry about how his head or neck arches yet. Totallly put that aside for a bit, ok?

Work on getting to go forward and stop. Get those two first.
Sadly I don't really have anyone that could be a trainer I do have my sister that could help a bit.
I have done all three. He got really good in the round pen without any lunge line, but he suddenly stopped listening so i'm now back with the lunge line.
Thanks for you help :)
     
    08-09-2012, 02:08 AM
  #8
Foal
Thanks for some help, I am going to try some things for sure :) and I won't bother about collection yet :P
     

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