'Natural Dressage' - Page 2

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'Natural Dressage'

This is a discussion on 'Natural Dressage' within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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    01-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Ponyboy - Obviously you have no idea what dressage is. Go read a book.
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    01-11-2009, 08:57 PM
I know what that answer really means. It speaks for itself.
    01-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
Ponyboy -there are plenty of happy, relaxed dressage horses out there - that is a very bold and very very inaccurate thing to say.
Prove it.

Dressage used to be about the partnership of horse and rider. Now it's about bending the horse into a certain shape the fastest way possible for money/prestige.
    01-12-2009, 01:50 PM
Originally Posted by ponyboy    
Prove it.

Dressage used to be about the partnership of horse and rider. Now it's about bending the horse into a certain shape the fastest way possible for money/prestige.
Dressage STILL is about the partnership of horse and rider. Don't cluster all dressage riders into the same group of money and fame seeking animal exploiters. That's not what it's about. TRUE dressage is about achieving the highest level of harmony and communication with a horse. Granted, there are people out there that are doing Dressage for all the wrong reasons and go about it all the wrong ways just for the fame and money, BUT not all Dressage riders are like that. Don't take a few videos you see on YouTube about irresponsible Dressage Riders and label it as the norm for ALL Dressage riders. That is a very ignorant thing to do.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. If you don't agree with Dressage that's fine. But don't ignorantly label any person or method without properly educating yourself on the subject.

True Dressage riders treasure the heritage of the generations of Dressage riders that have come before them while continually seeking to improve the sport for horse and riders. If Dressage has changed than I believe it is changing for the better in world that has a greater value for the well being of animals.

Sorry for the rant. Back to the original subject:

I've seen these videos before and I think they look like a lot of fun and games. They aren't trying to train these horses for Grand Prix, they are just having some fun with their ponies. I think as long as they don't overwork them on difficult tasks such as Passage and Piaffe there is no harm done. I'm not really against clicker training when it comes to tricks (which is really what they are doing) but I don't think it works well if you are training the horse for riding and showing.

    01-12-2009, 02:05 PM
The only reason I have a problem with it is because it's labeled 'natural dressage'. Like the way the rest of us do dressage is somehow wrong!

The classical methods are working just fine. No need to come up with weird, off-the-wall ways to make horses do things.

And PonyBoy, don't come play with the big boys until you've learned enough. Most COMPETITIVE dressage is ruining the morals and the horses. There are still classical riders who do and do not show.

'anything you can get without equipment?' They're getting all incorrect work, which is the same reason why horses are breaking down later. They're not carrying their body correctly, and their muscles and joints aren't well prepared for the work that's being asked of them. I also don't consider this liberty--they're treating them like dogs.

But I guess the flashy tricks work more for you then the long, somewhat boring way of classical dressage. ;)
    01-12-2009, 02:48 PM
I've never seen a happy dressage horse either.
As JustDressageIt said, there are plenty of happy dressage horses. My pinto gelding is one of them. He enjoys his job because he understands what he's being asked to do. If a horse doesn't enjoy their discipline, then there are some critical training steps that were missed, and the horse is not suited to the sport.

Watch the last one again. All of the bounce is in the hind end--because the hind end is free to play, because the FOREHAND is loaded. There is no bounce in the front end, because that's where all his weight is. In the last one especially, the croup gets VERY high... when at that level of 'training', it should be low. ;)
I agree with mayfieldk as well. The horse in the video is not properly balanced at all, and that is not proper dressage.
    01-12-2009, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by ponyboy    
Prove it.

Dressage used to be about the partnership of horse and rider. Now it's about bending the horse into a certain shape the fastest way possible for money/prestige.
Your statements make you sound ignorant.

I do dressage, but I try and approach it so it's good for my horse; I don't have any set goals in place and don't want to compete at the Olympic level, so I go at my horse's pace - which is how it should be done regardless... but my horse enjoys dressage because I don't make it stressful.

Of course, a lot of dressage riders are in it for the titles and money, so they make shortcuts - I don't agree with that, and tend to squirm in my seat watching a lot of the Olympic level horses do their tests, as most horses really aren't moving freely or as they should be.

But please don't lump us all together. As with anything there are many avenues to accomplish certain tasks... and many of those methods are wrong, but they get results.

I'm sure my speech here won't do much to change your mind.
    01-12-2009, 04:04 PM
Sorry ponyboy I have to agree with everyone else that was rather a rash and arrogant and clearly naiive coment to make.

The horses in those videos do look unhappy I would definitely not say what you said

Originally Posted by ponyboy    
I've never seen a happy dressage horse either.
exactly what are you suggesting?
That us who don't do this so called "natural" dressage are making our horses unhappy?
That we hit them and force them to do what they don't want to do just so we can make them bent right? Because that's rubbish if your suggesting that!!

Any horse can be trained to do something like that for the constant treats the people in the vids are giving them, but for goodness sake they aren't dogs!! And natural horsemanship doesn't work by using treats!!

Originally Posted by ponyboy    
Prove it.

Dressage used to be about the partnership of horse and rider. Now it's about bending the horse into a certain shape the fastest way possible for money/prestige.
and are you suggesting that dressage isn't now?? These horses in the vids are wrong if they're backed like that (like what mayfieldk said) they aren't carrying their own weight properly let alone a riders weight aswell.

And not all of us are out for money/prestige perhaps your judging us on your own opinions?

And sorry DarkClyde i'm sure you didn't mean the vids you put on to cause such conflict
    01-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Super Moderator
All let's please stay on topic and not make this a personal attack against one persons comments.
    01-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Yeh sorry farmpony84 it's just a very offensive comment to those who do dressage.

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