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Opinions on this style of riding?

This is a discussion on Opinions on this style of riding? within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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        03-10-2013, 06:37 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    ......
    Tasia likes this.
         
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        03-10-2013, 06:43 PM
      #22
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by equitate    
    A horse going over a fence DOES need shoulder freedom in order to have a nice bascule (lift the forearms/closed the angles), and the saddles are NOT more forward but rather have a stepper angle (because the stirrups are shorter in order to have much shorter stirrups and be able to stay over the center of gravity which is further forward with the increased pace (canter/gallop).
    That's exactly what I'm saying. If any saddle would "interfere with shoulder movement" a jumping saddle would but they do not.

    Quote:
    Often times the higher stepping is weighted shoes/long feet the weight of which CAUSE higher mechanical actions. Saddlebreds ridden as dressage horses do not show the mechanical movement.
    There's a picture in this very thread of a foal showing it.
    jumanji321 likes this.
         
        03-10-2013, 08:02 PM
      #23
    Weanling
    Quote:
    There's a picture in this very thread of a foal showing it.
    And many youngsters (wb/etc) trotting freely show the same thing....different thing with rider on. I.e. An example of a wb : Record Price At German Elite Foal Auction for Oldenburg Colt*|*
         
        03-10-2013, 09:09 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by equitate    
    And many youngsters (wb/etc) trotting freely show the same thing....different thing with rider on. I.e. An example of a wb : Record Price At German Elite Foal Auction for Oldenburg Colt*|*
    Exactly. I've seen draft foals doing it. Just prancing around is what I assumed.
         
        03-11-2013, 12:16 AM
      #25
    Started
    And look where that WBs neck is compared to the young saddlebred. They are bred and made for two different things. To ask that WB foal to set up like a saddleseat horse would be...wrong. You would not get a good result. At all. He could pick his knees up to the stars, but his overall conformation makes him unsuitable as a saddleseat horse. Lucky for him, he will shine elsewhere.

    Likewise a saddlebred foal that is born with all the motion in the world that is born "forward headed" like that, will never make a saddleseat horse. Or all neck, no motion. We had a colt here that could stick his ears in your mouth when you were on him. Plus he was super refined, was a good sized horse, and exquisitely beautiful. He would have tripped over a broom handle. Most quarter horses lifted their feet higher. He was not a saddleseat horse. We cannot force them to pick their feet up if they arent made for it. They have to be built correctly to do the job. Same with jumpers. Same with dressage. Same with reiners. Same with working drafts.

    If you were to compare videos of those foals, you would see would see two totally different things. Which is why one is suited for one thing, and the other another.

    You can also compare the saddles. Cutback saddles are made to remove as much interference as possible. Thy are light, they are thin, and they allow for as much freedom of movement as possible. We don't use a lot of leg cues, but we do need to stay out of our horse's way. They are made to help the horse do his thing. They are made to help the rider do his thing too. Jumping saddles are made to help the horse and rider while jumping, same with dressage, hunt, and western saddles. They are all made for a purpose.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        03-11-2013, 12:47 AM
      #26
    Super Moderator
    I would just like to say that that rider in the first video was a dandy good rider. She posted as light as a feather, he posture was lovely, her lower leg steady and quiet and though the rein was short, it was very steady, something the horse really appreciates.

    I've briefly ridden SS and let me tell you, it's REALLY hard to do. My hat's off to that rider.
    LadyDreamer, CessBee and boots like this.
         
        03-16-2013, 06:05 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    Just wondering, but isn't this a video of a Senior class? Could that be why the horse is not the best conformation wise?
         
        03-16-2013, 09:06 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    Here's a 2 yo dutch...
         
        03-17-2013, 03:29 AM
      #29
    Started
    Arabian
    Arabian stallion HD Sampson - YouTube

    Saddlebred
    Ro & Me's Out Of The Ashes, American Saddlebred, 2-year old gelding, - YouTube

    Hackney
    Sold Black Hackney Stallion - YouTube

    Morgan
    JW Out Of The Blue (HVK Bell Flaire x Noble Airess) - YouTube

    Various drafts
    FREX 2012 Ultimate Supreme - YouTube

    I don't know about you, but I see vast differences between the lot of them. In their structure and how thy carry themselves, as well as movement in general. I see differences in attitude, and in truth, that does play a big role in a horse's success. I see what makes them suited for what they are or will be asked to do.

    That WB is a world apart from a saddlebred show horse, which, arguably is the epitome of SS horses. If they were not, the other common SS breeds wouldn't keep trying to make their horses like them. He is a pretty horse for sure, and a good mover, but not built the best for a SS horse. I don't like the slope of his shoulder or how his neck ties into it. He has something funky going on around the withers that would very likely inhibit him from comfortably raising up, carrying a rider, and moving with high motion all together. That horse is going to be much more comfortable going with a lower head and neck. This one could possibly be faked into it for a while, but he wouldn't last long. As he matured and developed, I would put money on his neck getting lower and lower, and putting him in lower and lower divisions. Which is sad. That horse does not seem to deserve being a pleasure horse. Not bashing pleasure horses, it is just if you are going to make a point with something, go big. Like Harry Callahan with dressage. Or Wing Tempo with CTR.

    If I were going to cross him with something to make a SS horse, I would look into a nice hackney. Jr. Exhibitor "pony" classes do not need to be full anything. I would never cross him with a saddlebred, because there are much better full saddlebred stallions, and the half market is not good. Plus there are plenty of better choices in breeds to make a SS horse.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    CessBee, uflrh9y and NBEventer like this.
         
        03-17-2013, 07:39 PM
      #30
    Weanling
    *sigh* Once again people who seem to be of the "it's different from what I do, so it must be wrong" mindset

    Look at some pictures of a saddlebred standing still


    And compare with that of a QH


    Look at how differently they are put together. To say that one should move like the other is silly, they physically cannot.

    This saddlebred is gorgeous Ro & Me's Out Of The Ashes, American Saddlebred, 2-year old gelding, - YouTube his movement you can clearly see is natural for him.

    And now look at this QH at 1 minute or indeed any in this video all are moving in ways that are natural to them. And it is clear that because of their build that they are suited to different tasks. The QH couldn't get his head up that hard if he tried! You can see how high they can get their head up when they are all excited and that is barely even close to that of the saddlebreds resting height.

    You wouldn't expect a professional wrestler to be built and move like an Olympic sprinter would you?
    LadyDreamer and NBEventer like this.
         

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