posting

I do not know the first thing about the influence on/off ground, but I do know that what Kitten Val described is the ONLY way I can get a response to the horse I ride. I squeeze at any other time than on the way back up, and he completely ignores it. He is not a "real" lesson horse - he only has, I think, 3 people that ride him - but once I've got him trotting, the moment to issue Delicate Requests with my legs is OVER. Also, if I try to squeeze at any other time, it does funky things to my posture and my timing on the rise/fall of the post.

FP, the elbow/hand shouldn't go back (but rather stay relaxed), you use just fingers (close the fingers as my trainer says) and (as Kayty already pointed out) the core muscles (mostly).

You people are confusing me! I'm going to post pictures for critique. I just have to tack up english so you get the full effect........

KV - the best time the influence a leg to when it is just leaving the ground.
For example, imagine if you are walking at a quick pace, someone asks you to change directly abruptly. If your foot is grounded you will struggle, but if your leg is halfway through it's cycle midway in the air, you'll struggle as well.
If your foot is just about to leave the ground, you have time to prepare your change of direction with ease.

Well, this is my instructor's take on it....calf pressure when you are down, because when you are rising your calf is elongated and the muscles are not as effective. No pulling elbows back, finger pressure only if the horse is not on the bit or not rounding his back. Open your finger and let him go and no pressure if he is doing his job, that's the reward.

I would tend to agree that if you must influence the horse, do it just as you begin your rise up. I try NOT to bump every step of the trot. It gets irksome to horse and rider. And I don't do any sort of rythmic closing of hand. I only close the hand if the horse is falling to much forward or perhaps lifting head and I remind them to come back to me. But, in all honesty, if I do that well in reality, it's questionable. I think I do this but may be actually doin more with my hand than I thinki I am.

I have to think about it more. By "leaving" you mean it's getting there (lighten up if that's a good enough word to use). I see what you are saying, and I agree that you can influence it on this stage as well. But I still think you can influence it while in air too. The only time you can't at all (or very little) is when it's "hard" on ground I'd think. I have to try it today on all stages (given we won't have 100F)...

And as I think about it... Don't you use the seat too to send it while rising (and I agree with tiny - I ask when I just starting to rise, not when I'm fully up)? That's what I do usually if she needs a stronger cue.

I dragged husband down to the barn to get pix yesterday but Riley threw a shoe and then my stupid girth didn't fit and I couldn't find my girth extender and husband came down on his dirt bike and was doing circles around my ring and my western boots came in that were too big because they were mens and I got cranky so I put the horse away and did not ride. It is going to be too hot for the next few days but I will post pix.

For the record, I don't bump every stride. I generally will "check" him on the corners as we round and if needed I'll do it here and there. I am just concerned with impulsion vs racey. I have stopped with the western jog and lope for a while so that I can insure that I have correct forward movement and then I'll worry about slow........

I would say whatever works best for you. I have heard from 1 of my trainers when you sit use leg and the other says when you rise. I would do sort of a trial to test them both out. (: As for the "bumping" I don't quite know why you would have to because quiet hands usually work better unless you are asking for a cue of course.