Two Point Vs "Jumping Position"

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Two Point Vs "Jumping Position"

This is a discussion on Two Point Vs "Jumping Position" within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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    02-11-2011, 09:19 AM
Green Broke
Two Point Vs "Jumping Position"

Lately, when I have been reading through some threads, I have felt like people are getting the two point position mixed up with a "jumping position", so I wanted to know what your opinion on it is.

To me, up until recently, I thought they were the same, until I got to actually thinking about it.

Two point only means two points of contact, and even though I can jump in this position, I also use it for canter work as well, to stay off "my" school horses back and let him move a bit more freely.

So now that I realized that, jumping position is the position I am actually in when I go over a jump.....back flat, hands forward, automatic/crest release, centered over the saddle....letting the horse close my hip angles for me. That being said, I have not jumped a height over 3', so I am not having to put my chest closer to the horses neck like a grand prix jumper might have to.

What is your take on it? What were you taught, and now what do you believe?

**This was placed in english riding so that jumpers, eventers and hunters could comment on it at will, as I didn't want it to be missed in the jumping thread.**
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    02-11-2011, 10:58 AM
I believe that the two are completely different.

My Coach calls it "Functional Two Point" and "Passive Two Point".

Functional Two Point: Is where you are up and out of your saddle, but not that much. Just enough space bewteen your seat and your saddle, to fit your hand under.

Your chest is open, lifting your heart, tall upper body, looking up at your next fence. You are balanced over your feet, with your legs around your horses girth. Heels absorbing bodies weight, while you are asking your horse to come up into your seat with every upstride of the canter.

In this position, you can use your core to half halt, you can control rhythm, fluidity. You can ask your horse to move out, to come back under you. You have a lot of control, while staying out of your horses way.

My hands are too high here..they should be much lower, so ignore that....

Passive Two Point: Is just that - passive. This is the point in time, when your horse is going over the fence. You stay over your horses center of gravity, you are still over your feet, legs are still around your horses girth while they are asking your horse to come up into your seat - but you are staying out of your horses way.

    02-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Green Broke
I was hoping you would post MIE!

I like your version of explaining it better then my own.
    02-11-2011, 01:13 PM
See, the photos that MIE posted look more like a half seat to me, then 2 point.

In my jumping lessons, we always do our positions on the flat (half seat, then 2 point) before we start jumping.

Half seat is literally like half way to 2 point. You're up out of the saddle (a little bit, not as much as 2 point) and as MIE said your horse moves up to you in the upstrides of the canter. Your hands are not as far forward on the neck as they would be in two point, but farther up than a "normal" seat.

2 point on the flat for me is the same as 2 point going over the jump, except obviously the horse closes your hip angle over the jump.
    02-11-2011, 01:26 PM
Green Broke
But it could also be called a brushing seat, as your butt brushes the saddle at certain points during the canter.

So really then....brushing, two point, and half seat are all the same thing, just different names. It just depends on how you were taught with what names...?
    02-11-2011, 01:36 PM
Yeah I suppose it is subjective to what you were taught.

It sure does make things confusing though! Because my half seat may be what you call 2 point, etc. :/
    02-11-2011, 02:18 PM
Green Broke
Could one be considered more correct then the other?
    02-11-2011, 02:40 PM
I learned the same terminology as Eliz. Just apply the names half seat and two point to MIE's examples is basically how I've always known it.

As for one being more's just a name right? So its like the famous chestnut or sorrel debate? Depends on what crowd you run with. Or maybe that's just my take...
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    02-11-2011, 02:56 PM
While I am not a jumper or even an english rider, I use a half seat when working with the youngsters. To me, a jumping seat would me much different. I can totally agree that to me, a half seat, brushing seat and 2 point are all essentially the same.
    02-11-2011, 03:12 PM
Well, maybe you're right! I found these pics - but I can't find the article. I know MyBoyPuck posted the article once on here, from the Practicle Horseman Magazine........

But it shows the seats, and maybe my "Functional Two Point" is more of a 3 point or 1/2 seat? But the 2 point, looks like what I am I am confuzzled ladies!

Here's the Full Seat:

3 Point Seat...or is this the 1/2 seat?

1/2 seat - or 3 point?? BAH! CONFUSING!

And 2 Point:


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