Whips, Crops, and what do you make of this? - Page 2

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Whips, Crops, and what do you make of this?

This is a discussion on Whips, Crops, and what do you make of this? within the English Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category

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    07-19-2009, 05:20 PM
Green Broke
Like many have said, I have no problems using a crop correctly. It makes me very angry though when this training aid is used inappropriately or excessively. In eventing, you cannot smack your horse with the crop more than three times in front of a jump, if you smack four times or more, it is considered excessive and abuse. I always follow this guideline. No matter if I am at a horse park or not.

If you feel this was abuse, please talk to someone. You said that the horse looked terrified... so I would consider taking this up with the barn manager.
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    07-19-2009, 09:15 PM
That is just plain cruel. I usually hold my crop when I ride, but rarely use it, except tapping him at the shoulder when he won't pay attention to my other aids. If she doesn't listen to you, maybe you should get someone in charge (like the barn manager) to talk to her.
    07-19-2009, 09:18 PM
Talk to the Barn Manager/Owner about your concerns. Maybe she'll listen to someone with some "authority".

As many have already stated, I have no problem with whips and crops when used to encourage, but what she was doing was mean.
    07-19-2009, 10:47 PM
Cherylchan, I just had to say, I love your avatar. Its so funny :]

Anyway, I agree with everyone else. It makes me want to cry that people are so stinking careless! And just adding, sometimes I would hit my boot with the crop and lacy would respond to the sound haha.
    07-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Green Broke
^^ Oh, yes, I use sounds too. It's a great way to use a crop.
    07-20-2009, 10:10 AM
In my opinion, I have nothing against crops and whips. They are aids meant to be used. All the same, they have to be used with responsibility and care. It's just plain cruel to hit a horse that hard!
You said you got pictures, right? Well, you can try talking to the barn manager, or, if the girl is only a young teen and not an adult, talk to her and if she doesnt listen talk to her parents. If they don't listen... there's nothing you can do, really. But I'll tell you, lot's of parents don't know that their kids abuse their horse, and they would be MAD if they found out...
Best of luck with that, anyways.
    07-20-2009, 10:16 AM
He kept refusing and several times instead of encoraging him or nudging him, She smacked him very hard with her crop (he had lines where it had come down). I was taking pics and I got one of him looking terrified and her with the whip coming down.
Then she is an undeducated rider - she obviously doesn't realize what horses truely see when they are approaching a fence, and that 99% of refusals is rider error.

So since every refusal was her fault, how about we use the crop on her to teach her a lesson? If I were there in person, I guarantee you I woud of done that. Done it before, I'd do it again.

She is uneducated and ignorant - I feel sorry for the horses she rides.

I carry a crop with me when I do CC. Better to have it and not need it than eed it and not have it. When do I use it? When I make an error on Nelson and know he is going to not take the job because of something I did, I'll wave it so he can see it, and that gives him the motivation to get over the fence to cover my ass.

I use it on my leg when doing flat work, I'll smack my leg, not him.

I'm disgusted at this girl - she has no business riding a green OTTB.
    07-20-2009, 10:38 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think the problem is going to get worse with his refusals.

He will associate the jumps with being whipped. I would be terrified of jumping too, if I were her horse.

Maybe put it to her like that?
    07-20-2009, 01:57 PM
What kind of crop was it? Allot of hunter people use a crop with a really big fat end that only makes a loud smacking noise but doesn't really hurt. I used to sell tack, so I would demonstrate these properties often and actually use them on myself to see which ones do what. The fatter the end the louder and softer it really is, the riding bats with the triangular large end are also rather short which is maybe why she had to actually reach back and pop her horse. I am not defending her actions, I'm just thinking about times when I might have swung back with an english bat and looked a bit tough, but wasn't actually hurting the horse. The point was I was more intimidating than the obstacle, but not hurting my horse. If it was a dressage whip, or something thin and flexible, then it could really sting, and could have been overboard. I don't really know the solution, but I agree with eventerdrew that more than three times in front of a fence is excessive/abusive especially if the crop is harsher than a bat. I dealt with allot of reschooling of stoppers and it can be tough, so if she just was having one bad day, maybe give her a break? If this happens weekly or more then maybe talking to someone who can approach her unbiasedly and alone could help. Don't go with them though, then it will seem like your ganging up, and people are sensitive about being uneducated and abusive, you want to solve the problem, not make her resent or ignore you. If you can, grab the crop she used and test it on yourself, then if you think it's abusive, maybe show her how much it hurts too? You might be surprised at how much, or little pressure can cause pain from a particular crop
    07-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Green Broke
The barn manager cannot do anything about it either it is her horse. She can do with it what she pleases. And if the barn manager is a business person. Alsong as the girl pays the bill every month im sure they won't have a problem with it. I know if I was a barn manager I would be concerned for the horse yes, possibly mention something to the owner but aslong as they payed the bill I wouldn't interfear. Really, I wouldn't get involved. People don't take kindly to others telling them what to do with their horse.

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