Dressage in Eventing - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 19 Old 09-09-2009, 10:26 PM
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Exactly Spyder.

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post #12 of 19 Old 09-10-2009, 02:48 AM
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I think it's because in top level real dressage the horses are rode very uphill, so in a high frame.
in eventing dressage however the horses aren't dressage horses, so are ridden in the outline you would expect in lower level dressage. Depending on the horse of course.



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post #13 of 19 Old 09-10-2009, 11:45 AM
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I've never ridden strictly at a dressage competition, but I do know that my overall scores were always lower because of my lack of skill in the dressage arena. Which really, is the basis for all riding.

I hate to think of someone thinking that dressage in the eventing scenario is lesser, but I'd hazard to guess that like someone alluded to in a previous post; the rider and horse aren't focused on one discipline but three, whereas a rider that focuses on one particular area is going to be much better at it.

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post #14 of 19 Old 09-10-2009, 01:24 PM
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Hi everyone! Great discussion! I have to say I cringe anytime I hear the word "frame." This implies a head-set. Why are we fixated on the head when the energy of a horse starts at the other end? When I look at a horse's picture, I look at the flow of energy. This begins with the horse taking weight on his hind quarter, stepping underneath his body, rounding through his back, and flowing forward, through. When I see this, I don't even have to look at the head and neck - he is on the bit.

I know this may seem like semantics, but frame to me implies a cookie-cutter, stiff, stuck position. There is no energy flow with "frame." You are completely right to observe tension with concepts like head-set and frame! Because that is exactly what is happening! A great resource is The Principles of Riding. This outlines great dressage concepts (like the training scale). So, it doesn't matter if the sport is Eventing or upper level Dressage, the point of all this is the training concept.

Dressage is like watching a work of art in motion - when done properly there is suppleness, ease, forward motion, and beautiful energy. It is poetry! It is also attainable on an horse and with any rider.

Last edited by aynelson; 09-10-2009 at 01:27 PM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 09-10-2009, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aynelson View Post
Hi everyone! Great discussion! I have to say I cringe anytime I hear the word "frame." This implies a head-set. Why are we fixated on the head when the energy of a horse starts at the other end? When I look at a horse's picture, I look at the flow of energy. This begins with the horse taking weight on his hind quarter, stepping underneath his body, rounding through his back, and flowing forward, through. When I see this, I don't even have to look at the head and neck - he is on the bit.

I know this may seem like semantics, but frame to me implies a cookie-cutter, stiff, stuck position. There is no energy flow with "frame." You are completely right to observe tension with concepts like head-set and frame! Because that is exactly what is happening! A great resource is The Principles of Riding. This outlines great dressage concepts (like the training scale). So, it doesn't matter if the sport is Eventing or upper level Dressage, the point of all this is the training concept.

Dressage is like watching a work of art in motion - when done properly there is suppleness, ease, forward motion, and beautiful energy. It is poetry! It is also attainable on an horse and with any rider.
when I refer to 'frame' I am inferring the whole body, not just the head. I think it depends on the context as to what 'frame' means. To me it it how the horse as a whole is carrying itself.
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post #16 of 19 Old 09-11-2009, 12:12 AM
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I find it insulting that people say Eventing Horses are not ridden the same in the dressage ring, as one would in a USDF ring.

Funny since Dressage is now the most important factor in the world of Eventing.

I can go and watch a Training Level Test 1 at a USDF show, or watch a Novice Eventing Dressage Test - ridden - and not see a difference at all. The tests differ, the riding does not.

Tests differ. Training, skill, education, Riding, does not.






Here are clips of Rolex

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post #17 of 19 Old 09-11-2009, 12:56 AM
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I think that eventing dressage is improving with the more elite riders now, as they are all started to focuss so much more on their dressage. However, there is definately a difference in the averyage quality of a 'pure' medium/advanced tests compared to an eventer riding the same test. And thats absolutely fair enough, dressage riders focuss purely on dressage, of course the standard is going to be higher. Eventers need to focuss on three discplines. It would be depressing for pure dressage if eventers were riding at exactly the same standard, so much work going into one discipline then an eventer does the same quality work with 1/2 the effort in that discpline.
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post #18 of 19 Old 09-11-2009, 12:58 AM
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Those videos as well, very good dressage there but again, typical of eventing dressage- very 'staccato'
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post #19 of 19 Old 09-11-2009, 02:45 AM
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MIeventer- the middle video is not a very good dressage test, I couldn't really watch the others because my computer is slow. I watched some eventing on TV and I observed a lot of them were warming up in the arena in the rolkur position. I am surprised nobody really cares about it. Is it acceptable in the eventing world for some reason? For example, in the middle video you posted the horse is behind the vertical (and the bit). The halt at the beginning of the test revealed this because the horse had its head way up instead of being on the bit. Most likely, the rider is hands heavy. I am no professional eventer but I see a lot of hand heavy riding in the jumping/eventing world, which would explain the rolkur. I am not saying that there are no hand heavy dressage riders but it isn't correct and the dressage world tends to pay more attention to this.
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