Help with student - realistic goals - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 35 Old 11-30-2010, 11:34 PM
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Teach, that person would be a fool to throw away a teacher like you! And mayhaps he/she IS, a fool , that is. Could be that no matter how hard you try to talk sense to "it" you will have to step aside and let them bust their own head. Hope not, for their sake and your heartache.

She sounds like she needs oodles of stirrupless longeline lessons (what I would give to do that more now. and I am sooo glad I had the ones I did get to have.)
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post #12 of 35 Old 11-30-2010, 11:43 PM
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I agree with tinyliny! A rider really can't get too much stirrupless stuff on the lunge line!

Maybe that will really show them their balance issues and even make them more aware of the fact they are out of shape. Riding stirrupless, especially at the posting trot is WORK, and will be a wake up call just a bit.
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post #13 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 01:02 AM
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This is my advice.

Your student seems to be working on a "timeline based" learning concept, where as I believe all things should be based on an "achievement based" learning concept. All people learn different things at a different rate. Achievement based learning gives goals, satisfaction and achievement.

I'd pull her aside and explain something like this, and say that although she does want to event there are some things she has to achieve first. Include things like sitting trot with stirrups, without, canter serpentine, simple changes, maybe even walk to canter? Write all these down as individual goals. Then things like "two point seat for five minutes", learning distances at trot, canter. Then trot poles, caveletti, small jumps etc.

Explain that before reaching the jumping/eventing, all these things need to be achieved. Then create an action plan about what horse she is going to use, and where you are both going to start and go from there.

Some people will never listen and there is nothing you can do.
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post #14 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 02:29 AM
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i agree with all the above....
sometimes people just need to learn from their own mistakes. if this student wants to event and won't listen to you and then goes out and does it then i'd have to say....let them.
one round of xc will be enough. i don't think this student understand that people and horses have DIED on a xc and that you need to be prepared for any situation and know your limitations and your horses. because if they go out and the horse isn't prepared the horse will stop, bolt, buck, rear....anything! i feel sorry for the horses....they don't get much of a choice. this student needs to go to an event and watch, watch the preparation, watch the falls, watch the horses that might not be ready and the consiquences of these actions. they need to talk to seasoned eventers, and find out what the dangers are and what these eventers have done to get to where they are and the mistakes they have made.
i've fallen off on xc in training and out in competition, i've been fortunate that my injuries haven't been bad but it still hurts! i've seen people get carted away in ambulances, i've heard horror stories. i watched a horse die, i've seen the graves, i've seen horses bolt and dump their riders at a gallop. sooo many things can and will go wrong.
if your student doesn't believe you then they need to experience it themselves, i know it's harsh but sometimes that will wake them up. not to mention it's not a cheap sport. and looks won't get you safely through xc.
you can only advise and warn and try prepare the student but if it doesn't sink in then there's not much else you can do but to be ready to catch the horse.

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post #15 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
Teach, that person would be a fool to throw away a teacher like you! And mayhaps he/she IS, a fool , that is. Could be that no matter how hard you try to talk sense to "it" you will have to step aside and let them bust their own head. Hope not, for their sake and your heartache.

She sounds like she needs oodles of stirrupless longeline lessons (what I would give to do that more now. and I am sooo glad I had the ones I did get to have.)

I do stirrupless lungeline lessons right now which helps on my balance sooo much. I can actually stay pretty balance bareback...I would highly recommend this.It will help her with her balance issue tremendously. When it's nearing to the end of the lesson let her walk around and do some flexing and some trotting(if she is allowed to). Make a chart of her progress and pin it up somewhere and when she has mastered something check it off or put a sticker by it.This may help her feel accomplised.

Erm, just curious but do you have issues with her weight? I think you mentioned it twice. Getting in shape is hard to address.
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post #16 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Tiny, that is exactly where we are at and doing. I can't tell you how much their seat has improved in the couple of months she has had regular lessons with me. Their hands are soft in the canter, but they still uses them for balance at the trot. They are just so determined that they decided to do the no stirrup work off of the lunge - and fell.

Gave a lesson last night, and was able to point out to her "why" their horse was getting fast in the trot.

Came up with a compromise that I think might get them excited...

We have a two day mini camp for Jr. and adult Amateurs. The first day is a dressage lesson with an FEI competitor and judge. The second day is going to focus on jumping for beginners. We are setting up a stadium course with the typical "questions" - Do I go outside this jump, do I need to push my horse here, hold a little here etc. For those who are not ready to jump we will take the poles down , and let them ride through it to get a feel for how to ride a course.

Gidget. The trouble withe their weight is that they can't move their legs. When I first suggested no stirrup work, they could not move their leg enough to flip up the stirrups. So when weight effects agility and fittness level yes I do have an issue with weight.

My trainer years ago told me that i needed to strat going to the Gym and working out. I was not offended because I knew that I was not in good enough shape to ride properly. But I did not have a weight issue. I have not addressed the fitness level with them as it is such a delicate issue, and I don't want to hurt the riders feeling.

I like the chart idea for a Jr. rider - do you think it is to Juevenile for a 30 something adult?
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post #17 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 10:04 AM
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Thanks everyone for the advice.

MIEventer. I am not competing now - have in the past, and do work with an event trainer to pass them onto when they are ready. There are no event trainers in my area however, so even when the time comes she can not get weekly cross country lessons from anyone. My job is to teach Dressage, and Jumping, recommend good clinicians etc - She isn't ready to go over a cross rail yet, let alone look at a cross country course. I feel that the rider needs to be doing stadium courses well before they can even think about cross country, and stadium I can ride and teach. A rider needs to be able to answer questions of a stadium course before questions on a CC course.

Incidently I lined up an unmounted education day with a current eventer for my dressage/CT students. This student left the session half way through because they had "read it all and it was just review".

I just wanted to clarify that I know my limitations as a trainer. I have been out of the event world for a long time. But I do not feel that is making me too cautious with this student or holding her back. They are simply not ready to jump. If you fall off at the sitting trot you certainly do not have the balance or flexibility to jump.

I put this rider on my bee there done that school horse a while ago and let her trot over a crossrail (very low crossrail), he didn't jump it, just trotted over it with a little more susspension and she almost fell - that usually makes a student take a step back and realize their limitations. Not in this case. Just found out toninght that they attemtepted to jump their horse (who has never jumped) over a crossrail a couple of weeks ago. Should I really send this student to an eventing clinic yet?????????????? I am thinking NO.
Sorry, let me clarify myself - my appologies for not being more "clear". At an Eventing Clinic, the Clinitian never starts *well, shouldn't* out with CC fences..they always start with Stadium.

They watch the students who are riding with them, in each level they sign up for - to ensure that they are in the correct levels, and to ensure that they are prepared to venture to the CC course.

As Jim Wofford says - if you cannot ride a stadium fence properly, solidly and efficiantly, you have no business being out on the CC course.

And I agree whole heartedly -

I thought your student was a big more far along, than where she really is. I assumed she was doing xrails - but if she isn't....ah.........yeah.

I would definately focus alot more on dressage and lunge line work with no reins as already mentioned.

Dressage is sooooo important, if GP Jumpers spend up to 5 days a week doing only dressage, there's a big reason behind it. I think your student is suffering from delusions of grandure. :/ you're doing the best you can, and I applaud you for that.


Sounds like the student you have, is definately a "case". And I am proud to hear that you want to fill in this riders gaping holes in their education, before you allow them to progress forward.

They should be appreciative. I wish there were more coaches out there like you!

Last edited by MIEventer; 12-01-2010 at 10:06 AM.
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post #18 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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MIEventer - yep, I knew what you were saying. I think I wasn't being clear. Right now this student does not need to be jumping at all. I need to show them that they need to take a deep breath and slow down - without killing their interest in the wonderful world of horses. Because she wanted to be jumping YESTERDAY.

I like the way you think. If you knew how many times I used that example with my students when discussing how important dressage is. And I of course agree with jimmy Wofford

I have to say that the "trainer" before me is the one that brought this student to me. They both came for a lesson. The "trainer" taught "hunter/jumpers", but in my lesson with her had no idea what a half halt was.
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post #19 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 01:19 PM
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Interesting post! As a returning adult rider I am super careful. I used to jump when I was much younger but know I'm not ready to do that again right now. Lesson w/o stirrups on a lunge line is a great idea.... I think I will mention it to my trainer!! I can sit to the trot fine but have never tried w/o stirrups and never ridden bareback!! I guess I'm just a scared older rider. LOL LOL
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post #20 of 35 Old 12-01-2010, 03:09 PM
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You know..Jr. might like the chart idea. I'm 22 yrs old and I'm taking dressage lessons and the chart idea sounds fun to me. It shows your progress and it will be fun to look at.Ask her if you and her could put one together and see her response.

The no stirrup work..have you tried no stirrups and reins at the same time? I have to do that. I actually have to do,scissors,try and touch my toes,drag my legs,and then put them back to riding position. It's hard work! you might want to try that with her. And if she is that overweight I would somehow address the weight issue the way your trainer did..tell her your trainer advised you to go to the gym to get in shape .This will make it so it doesn't seem so rude.
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