Rule regarding a fall on XC - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-20-2011, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Rule regarding a fall on XC

Today I fell off while doing XC. It wasn't really at a jump. My horse, who is still very green, has never done a show at this place and he was a little nervous. I had him going in a great, forward gallop in a field when he spooked at something and planted his feet, coming to a very abrupt stop and causing me to fall off. Knowing I was eliminated, I grabbed him, signaled to a jump judge I was fine, and walked back. I was stopped at the finish line by a TD and a member of the EMT. They just made sure I was ok and asked me about the fall. Then she (the TD) told me that if the fall was not related to a jump, you were NOT eliminated. Only if it was at a jump. I told her this was not true and they changed it sometime last year to ANY fall ANYWHERE on the course is automatic elimination. She insisted that she was correct. My sister, in october, fell off no where near a jump, her horse slipped in a turn and she came over his neck, they eliminated her. I asked my trainer about this and she said she had not heard of that and was pretty sure you couldn't fall anywhere on course. I looked up the rulebook and this is what is says:

b. Falls - (1) First fall of competitor - Elimination

It says nothing of where the fall occurs. But I assume this means ANY fall. Whether related to a jump or not. Even the EMT mentioned that he was pretty sure the rule had changed last year though he wasn't exactly sure to what. Shouldn't a TD know her rules??? Who is correct?
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post #2 of 15 Old 03-21-2011, 03:34 AM
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I have jumped judged many times at FEI events and believe you are correct. Any fall (whether the horse is presented to a jump or not) constitutes elimination. The TD (are you sure it wasn't a jump judge??) should have known her rules, as we are all prompted on them prior to the actual judging. It all goes into the new safety rules which I wholeheartedly agree with.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-21-2011, 03:52 AM
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I know in Australia any fall counts as an elimination, I once heard someone dismounted and they got elimated. Why you would dismount on a XC crouse I don't know but they did and got elimated for it
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post #4 of 15 Old 03-21-2011, 07:33 AM
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The TD is going by old rules. There used to be a penalty zone marked before and after a fence, and falls only counted if they were inside the zone. (Hence, related to the fence.) This was a pain both in setting up the course, and for the jump judges. It also lead to some really interestiong situations with riders hanging on by their fingernails until the horse moved outside the penalty zone and they could let go and remount.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-21-2011, 07:45 AM
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as far as i know you can fall on course on xc and get back on as long as it is not related to an obstacle. i did not event at all last year so cant be sure. a fall anywhere in stadium is E. last i knew there wasnt a 'zone' just if you had presented to the jump or not.

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-22-2011, 07:36 PM
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gypsygirl is correct. If the fall is not caused/related to a flagged obstacle then you can get back on and continue.

I checked with my coach. She's studying for her R course design test and has to be up to date on all the rules.

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post #7 of 15 Old 03-22-2011, 08:05 PM
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2011 Rules
p.40
4. PACE AND DISMOUNTING. Between the start and finish, competitors are free to
choose their own pace. They must be mounted to pass all red and white boundary flags. Dismounting as a result of attempting an obstacle, whether voluntary or not, is penalized in accordance with EV141.1.b. Elsewhere on the course, competitors may dismount without incurring a fault, other than possible penalties for exceeding the optimum time.

pg.44 (at obstacle)
eV141 cross-country scoring.
1. FAULTS AT OBSTACLES:
a. Disobediences -
(1) First refusal, run-out or circle 20 penalties
(2) Second refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle 40 penalties
(3) Third refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle Elimination
(4) Fourth penalized disobedience on the entire course Elimination
b. Falls -
(1) First fall of competitor Elimination
(2) First fall of horse Mandatory retirement
c. Willful Delay - (Beginner Novice, Novice and Training Levels)
(1) Between the last fence and the finish line 20 penalties

ETA link: http://useventing.com/resources/file...k_2011_web.pdf

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post #8 of 15 Old 03-22-2011, 08:09 PM
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and for a change (compared to the dressage bit dr. bristol question haha!) the rules are nearly the same for FEI as well.

http://twww.fei.org/sites/default/fi...20in%20red.pdf

pg. 52

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post #9 of 15 Old 03-22-2011, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ82Sky View Post
2011 Rules
p.40
4. PACE AND DISMOUNTING. Between the start and finish, competitors are free to
choose their own pace. They must be mounted to pass all red and white boundary flags. Dismounting as a result of attempting an obstacle, whether voluntary or not, is penalized in accordance with EV141.1.b. Elsewhere on the course, competitors may dismount without incurring a fault, other than possible penalties for exceeding the optimum time.

pg.44 (at obstacle)
eV141 cross-country scoring.
1. FAULTS AT OBSTACLES:
a. Disobediences -
(1) First refusal, run-out or circle 20 penalties
(2) Second refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle 40 penalties
(3) Third refusal, run-out or circle at the same obstacle Elimination
(4) Fourth penalized disobedience on the entire course Elimination
b. Falls -
(1) First fall of competitor Elimination
(2) First fall of horse Mandatory retirement
c. Willful Delay - (Beginner Novice, Novice and Training Levels)
(1) Between the last fence and the finish line 20 penalties

ETA link: http://useventing.com/resources/file...k_2011_web.pdf

Yeah I read that in the rulebook and my interpretation of "first fall of competitor elimination" is that if you fall, regardless of where it is, whether at a jump or not, you are eliminated? I read the whole section in the rule book (and more) and see nothing where it says if the fall is not caused by a jump, you may continue. For those that say you are only eliminated if you fall at a jump, can you please show me this in the rulebook? Becuase I am not seeing it...
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post #10 of 15 Old 03-22-2011, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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And how can they really define what fall is "caused by a jump", if this is the rule. When I fell, I WAS heading towards a jump, however, I know that my horses stop was not caused by the jump as I could tell he was spooking at the jump judge, and had no focus on his jump when he came to his abrupt stop. Some could say this was the jump. Some could say it was not. If they had said said it was caused by the jump and eliminated me, I honestly wouldn't argue considering I believe the old rule was you got like 80 points for a fall which would knock me out of placement anyway! It doesn't matter about this past show, 1 because its in the past! and 2 because I would have retired anyway. But I would like to know for future events!

Also, for those that say if your fall isn't related to a jump, you are not eliminated, then how many penalty points do you get? As that is also not in the rulebook.
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