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Tell me about goats?

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        08-29-2012, 08:11 AM
      #21
    Foal
    I'm going to defend sale barns here. YES, they can be and often are a dumping ground for unwanted animals. However, there are a LOT of people that sell their animals there for other reasons. Where I live....and in many rural areas...the sale barn is a social area and a resource. If you are a large breeder, then it simply isn't feasible or profitable to sell off the farm all the time. When it's time to sell and you have 50 goats or more, it's kinda hard to find 1 buyer at a time to buy them all. I buy at the sale quite often and have yet...not saying it can't or won't happen....but so far, I haven't brought any diseases home. Admittedly, I've bought some crappy animals too and had to take them back the next sale And, YES, I do use the sale barn for animals I don't want for whatever reason.

    At the same time, there ARE cons to buying off the farm. You see the animal in a location he is USE to....so behaviour is NOT going to be what you get when you get it home. "Help" from the seller is not always a good thing either....I've known some that are just plain crazy and will ream you cause you aren't babying their "prize animal" or "pet" like they think you ought to be. And some who won't even respond to you after you buy the animals cause they lied and don't want to admit it.

    Goats, Horses, Cows, Sheep....whatever you buy, from wherever you buy it. There IS a code of talk that should make you leary. If you feel uncomfortable with the way an animal is being presented to you, follow your instincts. Sale barn, classified ad, personal sale....remember BUYER BEWARE. A seller is ALWAYS trying to get the best possible price they can (and that doesn't always mean cash) I've known some crazies who think they are the only ones who know how to care for an animal and put some pretty wild expectations on a buyer, even they are giving the animal away. There is ALWAYS a reason someone is selling an animal....whether or not you get the real reason....weeelllll....that depends, but don't count on it.
         
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        08-29-2012, 08:53 AM
      #22
    Super Moderator
    OK, friendly disagreement from me....
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kccjer    
    I'm going to defend sale barns here. YES, they can be and often are a dumping ground for unwanted animals.
    Yes, and unwanted means sick, diseased, agressive, mean, whatever. Yes, there some nice goats that go through the auctions, but where I live (rural too) they are rare. No social hour here, it is all about dumping the junk.
    Too many people I know get suckered by the cute scared looking little kid and next thing you know ... wham! Their herd is riddled with barber pole worms or hoof rot.
    Again, sale barns are ok, but not a good place for a noob to start.
    All depends on the location and how "livestock" the area is.
    However, there are a LOT of people that sell their animals there for other reasons. Where I live....and in many rural areas...the sale barn is a social area and a resource. If you are a large breeder, then it simply isn't feasible or profitable to sell off the farm all the time. When it's time to sell and you have 50 goats or more, it's kinda hard to find 1 buyer at a time to buy them all. I buy at the sale quite often and have yet...not saying it can't or won't happen....but so far, I haven't brought any diseases home. Admittedly, I've bought some crappy animals too and had to take them back the next sale And, YES, I do use the sale barn for animals I don't want for whatever reason.

    At the same time, there ARE cons to buying off the farm. You see the animal in a location he is USE to....so behaviour is NOT going to be what you get when you get it home. "Help" from the seller is not always a good thing either....I've known some that are just plain crazy and will ream you cause you aren't babying their "prize animal" or "pet" like they think you ought to be. And some who won't even respond to you after you buy the animals cause they lied and don't want to admit it.

    Goats, Horses, Cows, Sheep....whatever you buy, from wherever you buy it. There IS a code of talk that should make you leary. If you feel uncomfortable with the way an animal is being presented to you, follow your instincts. Sale barn, classified ad, personal sale....remember BUYER BEWARE.

    ...A seller is ALWAYS trying to get the best possible price they can (and that doesn't always mean cash)
    Not true.
    I have absolutely no problem with selling any animal I have (alpacas, llamas, goats, turkeys, ducks, and chickens- the horse is NOT for sale LOL) to the right home for less.
    I have done it and will do it. I place the importance of a good home over and extra money.
    Not all animals born are destined for greatness, ie: champion this or that, but a good/responsible breeder recognizes the value of pet and companion animals and will put as much effort into finding them homes as the "prized" kid/offspring who will go on the win Nationals.
    I would rather the new buyer call me with any questions too. After all, I know the animal/animal species and can usually answer their questions. If I can't I will direct them to someone who will... Vet, another farm, internet....ect.
    I've known some crazies who think they are the only ones who know how to care for an animal and put some pretty wild expectations on a buyer, even they are giving the animal away.
    This is true too. Trust your gut on how you feel about the seller, or any seller.
    There is ALWAYS a reason someone is selling an animal....whether or not you get the real reason....weeelllll....that depends, but don't count on it.
    --Comments in bold, and again, just friendly disagreement.
         
        08-29-2012, 09:22 AM
      #23
    Foal
    Totally agree...unwanted CAN and often DOES mean sick, aggressive, etc. But NOT always. AND, yes, I have gotten some bad deals at the sale barn. There ARE nice animals that go thru and you DO have to be savvy when looking at animals....if it looks sick or lame, is coughing, being aggressive toward other animals in the pen with it, DON"t buy! The animals I've been burned on were ones that I really hadn't intended on buying but no bids were going so I bid (yep, SUCKER written on MY forehead LOL) and got stuck with them. Some of those have turned out to be fantastic animals too tho. And, I totally agree that it all depends on the sale and how "livestock" the area is. In my rural (read that as isolated) area, the sale barn is OUR MARKET. Not sure where everyone is from, but where I am....the nearest "mall" is a strip mall 120 miles away!! There are NOT many people out here compared to a lot of other places and that means there are not that many buyers either. If you don't have an animal that appeals to your market area....you aren't going to sell it out here EXCEPT at the sale barn where you aren't going to get much for it. An animal has to be pretty darn special for someone to travel very far to buy it from you....wherever you live!

    Please note that I DID say that "best price" is not always cash! Best price CAN mean the best home possible too. I've just been burned a few times by people that "only want a good home" for their animal (actually burned more times by that than buying an animal at the sale barn). They often place too high expectations on exactly what they expect from you and get very upset if you don't or can't meet their standards or just outright lie about the animal (been hurt physically by a few of those last ones). I've also had those that after you buy their animal and you call them when something is wrong and you get NOTHING from them....not even a courtesy return call saying they don't have a clue either.

    Again....all I can say is that the old saying BUYER BEWARE is there for a reason. And while there ARE responsible breeders/sellers that sell from their home, there aren't as many as we all like to think. And, please...don't start messaging with how responsible ALL OF YOU here on this forum are....there are WAY more sellers out there than on this forum

    And, I agree....friendly disagreement. There are always differences in areas. There ARE places where I probably wouldn't buy from a sale barn because there is a bigger market area and you don't HAVE to buy from a sale barn. We have quality breeders of all different animals who do NOT advertise for personal sales and ONLY sell at the sale barn.
         
        08-29-2012, 11:24 AM
      #24
    Started
    Subbing...I want to see who Lacey gets for company.
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        08-29-2012, 05:01 PM
      #25
    Super Moderator
    This is very interesting guys! You're the best! :)

    Horseluver, they aren't electric. I suppose they "could" be but my Lacey girl is about as close to being blind as you can be while still having a smidge of sight so electric anything is pretty much out for us. Since she can't really actually see the fence, she gets really nervous when she knows something is electric nearby but she doesn't know how nearby "nearby" is, you know?
    However, those wires are on the inside. Is that ok? My plan is to add height by wiring more metal mesh stuff to the inside, so the lowest stuff will be outside but the higher stuff will be inside...?



    So, initial plans (this is going to be tomorrow's "work"), these stalls off the shed. I have two currently. One is Lacey's, the other, slightly smaller, one does not currently have an "owner". They're both currently "electric" tape and t-posts but it would be easier than easy to get some 4ft tall chicken-wire/livestock mesh and put that around the inside/outside of the "goat pen" aka smaller stall.
    I would be wiring on the mesh to the posts so something would have to push pretty darn hard to get it to budge...
    According to my calculations, the smaller stall is 352sq feet. 208sq feet outside, 144 inside. Would that be sufficient for the first few days, while they settle in? There's even a good sized blackberry bush in there for "someone" to munch...

    Here's the initial stall plans:



    And plus t-posts. The white posts are those removable ones, plus mesh, will they be fine? They're in pretty solid but they aren't metal... I could EASILY replace them with metal if that would be best... It's the far stall I'm referring to but they're basically identical except that the far stall has a side jutting out from the shed, where the closer stall is using the tack room area for a little more space...:







    And don't worry, I'm not planning on picking up the first goat I see but I figure start small/easy with the goat-proofing and work my way up. And I figure, they'll need somewhere to settle in for the first little bit before they're freed, into the "wild"...
         
        08-29-2012, 05:37 PM
      #26
    Foal
    That looks lke t would work to me. Find out how the lady with the goats keeps hers in....that might make a difference too. OH! That reminds me! We got some goats from a lady who basically let hers roam the farmstead....those goats are absolutely impossible to keep in a fence!! In fact, all but one of those is gone. The one that is still here throws the most fantastic babies and has phenomenal milk which is the only reason she's not gone too. If you'll feed some grain to them too, you'll be their best friend in no time at all! Hehehe You won't be able to carry a bucket anywhere near them either, but Hey! You have to make some sacrifices, right???
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        08-31-2012, 01:23 AM
      #27
    Super Moderator
    Thanks kccjer! That's a fantastic point about observing how this lady keeps her goats, I hadn't even considered that but when you said it, it totally makes sense! Haha

    I'm meeting these Angoras (well, Angora and Angora/Dairy cross) tomorrow. I'm super super excited. The owner, for some reason, is also super excited... When I texted her this afternoon, to get her address, she put so many exclamation points in her text...it was like I was texting myself.
    I've been bumming around a goat forum Lockwood pointed me to and it appears like Angoras maaay have just the kind of personality I need/want (slightly shy but sweet, not overly demanding, not known for escaping at every chance, pretty "easy"). Of course, a lot depends on the particular animals in question but it seems that, from a breed personality point of view, the deck is stacked right!
    Other Angora bonus: they're photographically interesting! And we know that's important to me! Hahaha

    I'll report back tomorrow!

    I've gotten some replies to my CL ad but nothing that has really "popped". All the replies sounded like people trying to get troublemakers out of their herds or they were goat breeds I've crossed off my list due to a high likelihood of "weirdness". So that's a bummer... We'll see!
         
        08-31-2012, 03:38 AM
      #28
    Weanling
    Good luck!


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        08-31-2012, 08:30 PM
      #29
    Super Moderator
    So. Met the goats.

    And I think they were angel goats/you all are smoking something.

    The owner left the door off their pen for THREE hours while we talked and not a goat even considered leaving the pen. It was ridiculous. The pen was only maybe 800 square feet with no grazing to speak of so I'm thinking/hoping the chances of them staying in my pasture are pretty good.
    And, the gates she's using were just wooden pallets laid up against the fence opening - easily pushed over by a goat that wanted out.

    The owner was pretty sure that the older girl would definitely stay in my pasture even if I didn't improve it and she felt like it was 50/50 that the wether would try to get out just due to his age. I'm still planning to improve the fences, of course, but I'm feeling pretty good about this.

    I asked about diseases and they've been tested for all the the ones of importance: CAE, etc. She also said that her herd has been closed to outside animals for years.
    Apparently the doe IS super well bred=her $450 price a couple years ago. However, the owner is pretty attached to her+wants her to have a good retirement home so that's why she's letting her go so cheaply.


    All in all, I got a really good vibe from the seller and the goats.
    The seller, actually it was super funny. We both had our dark auburn hair done the exact same way, we both have the exact same skin tone -"tan" freckly red head-, we have the same views on animals -"every animal deserves to be loved and has something to teach someone"-, it was just uncanny. And, on top of that, after I showed her a picture of Lacey and told her about where Lacey came from, it turned out that she had actually known Lacey before I got her - she grew up down the street from Lacey's previous owner lived!! Weirrrrrd.
    It was super super uncanny.

    And, on the goat price front, we haggled a bit and it turned out that she had just gotten a horse but didn't have any tack for said horse. Guess who has one horse and enough tack for 4 horses? Um, ME. So I'm trading tack+helmets for goats+$$ AND she signed her two oldest girls up for riding lessons. BAM.

    The goats: they seemed perfect. Not super in your face, didn't try to touch me before I touched them -even when she gave me a bucket of grain- but allowed us to easily approach+pet them, even without grain. The doe (9y) was more standoffish but was fine with being approached etc. The wether (5mo) was a bit more "oooo! Who are you!??" but contained himself to just sniffing prior to me touching him. Once I touched him, he wanted to be close to me but wasn't rude about it.
    The wether was VERY polite about taking grain. I was handfeeding him and he gently nibbled it out of my hands but was fine when I stopped feeding it. The doe was quite a bit more pushy about it (she was obviously the dominant one) -bumping the grain bucket I was holding with her head, gobbling it out of my hands, etc- but I also wasn't being very assertive with her. I was kinda playing "goat petting zoo", just to get a real picture for their behavior.
    Both allowed me to pet them all over without any issues as well.

    Also, the wether turned out to be an Alpine/La Mancha cross. SUPER cute and he has the cute short ears of the La Mancha.

    There are things I want to double check with you guys: both goats have horns. I've read that that's a huge no-no? They seemed fine in their horned-ness...I asked the owner about that and she said that she's always had horned goats (she had about 12 horned goats there) without any issues but that some people didn't like the horns... Horns=fine if the goats are nice?
    The other thing is that the doe kept kind of butting the wether away from herself. The wether just started the weaning process on Tuesday so maybe he was being too forward with her? The owner had separated the two of them from the herd then to prep them for being together at my house... The owner said the doe was usually more passive than that, she said she's generally 5th in command with just the babies below her...
    Also, the doe was slightly skinny. The owner said she had just gotten her back from a pasture boarding situation that had worked out in previous years but apparently not this year. She showed me all her goats that had been in that situation and they were all a bit skinny. She was miffed about it and said that they had been steadily gaining in the 2 weeks since they'd been back from that pasture...


    I think I found some goats...maybe. Tell me what you think!
         
        08-31-2012, 08:47 PM
      #30
    Showing
    We had goats for years. I suppose they were somewhat of an impulse buy when my parents first bought the property--what's a farm without goats? I'll tell you that they're very destructive. Destroyed everything in their paths. However, they were extremely personable and followed us around like goats. We had one that would come up on our front porch in the afternoon (we let him outside during the day) and "knock" on the front door until my mom gave him a few Wheat Thins.

    The good thing about them is that you can learn to trim their hooves yourself pretty easily if you have someone to show you how.

    Ours lived forever. We had one that loved life so much, he would wander down to the apple tree with his arthritis (I believe, can't remember if it was that or something else) and sit in the sun eating apples in the morning. We finally had to put him down the day we needed to use a cart to bring him back to the barn because he couldn't move easily.

    We most likely won't own them again because of their destructiveness, but they were great to have and got along with the horses fine. I hope these work out for you!
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