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Advice on training my TWH to have a nice canter

7K views 45 replies 13 participants last post by  TrailRiderr 
#1 ·
Hello all!! I have owned my TWH now for almost 8 months. He was spooky and over reactive when I got him in January. I did a LOT of ground work with him and a LOT of walking when I first started riding him. He was broke to ride, but untrusting. He is 7 yrs old and he was super smooth. Since I have been asking for the canter, though, he gets kinda nervous/anxious. I think he tries to pace or trot, not sure which, but it is really rough and hurts my back. I bring him back down and let him relax and we try again. On the trail he does better then in the arena, I don't know if he has more room out in the open and that is why?? He will canter in the round pen when asked, and when he does break into the canter in the arena, it's only a few strides and he goes into that rough gait again. I have heard that TWH have a smooth rocking horse canter... how do I get that without loosing his smooth running walk?? Is it possible? Advice please, this is my first time training walker, thank you!!
 
#29 ·
"It is complete and utter bunk that work at the canter will damage the running walk. Indeed, the opposite is true."

That is true with some up hill THW(not all). With down hill horses, it is not that you'll damage the running walk. You'll condition the wrong muscles, then it just gets harder and harder for them to do the running walk. BEEN THERE DONE THAT, all too many times, before anyone was willing to tell us why.

If you want more speed to keep up with the daughter, teach him to rack. Much, Much, more agreeable with his conformation. I would not let this horse canter 2 steps. Wrong gait for him.
 
#30 ·
"It is complete and utter bunk that work at the canter will damage the running walk. Indeed, the opposite is true."
That is true with some up hill THW(not all). With down hill horses, it is not that you'll damage the running walk. You'll condition the wrong muscles, then it just gets harder and harder for them to do the running walk. BEEN THERE DONE THAT, all too many times, before anyone was willing to tell us why.

If you want more speed to keep up with the daughter, teach him to rack. Much, Much, more agreeable with his conformation. I would not let this horse canter 2 steps. Wrong gait for him.

There is nothing wrong with this horses conformation to canter. The OP said the horse will canter on the trail but not in the arena. This statement tells me its a balance issue.
As for the heels on the horse, it's hard to tell from these pics but the one on page 2 standing without a rider shows no heels and long toes but the pics with a rider shows more heel but again, it's hard to tell and yes, this could make it hard for the horse to canter if its creating pain.
 
#32 ·
There is no "bunk" or "BS" to it. This lady is trying to learn something. If you can't
be objective about it, then shut the "you know what" up. I don't mind trying to
help someone, especially if it prevents a down the road disaster. If you continue
to try and get a consistant canter out of this horse, you'll eventually wind up
with a pacing/canter horse only. If that is what she wants fine. Unfortunately,
too many of us wind up there and then wonder how it happened.

If I can get the job done I''ll post a picture of a up hill horse so you can see
the difference.




Compare this image to the one of the daughter riding in the arena. Look at how
much lighter in the front, this horse is, than the daughter in the arena. If they
are down hill horses it is very, very tough to pick them up and get the easy
moving canter. There is more than one reason why big lick horse have long
heavy front feet. Yes, the weight helps, put they take many a down hill horse
and make then artificially uphill. If they don't, they can't get a consistent canter either.
 
#38 ·
There is no "bunk" or "BS" to it. This lady is trying to learn something. If you can't
be objective about it, then shut the "you know what" up. I don't mind trying to
help someone, especially if it prevents a down the road disaster. If you continue
to try and get a consistant canter out of this horse, you'll eventually wind up
with a pacing/canter horse only. If that is what she wants fine. Unfortunately,
too many of us wind up there and then wonder how it happened.

If I can get the job done I''ll post a picture of a up hill horse so you can see
the difference.




Compare this image to the one of the daughter riding in the arena. Look at how
much lighter in the front, this horse is, than the daughter in the arena. If they
are down hill horses it is very, very tough to pick them up and get the easy
moving canter. There is more than one reason why big lick horse have long
heavy front feet. Yes, the weight helps, put they take many a down hill horse
and make then artificially uphill. If they don't, they can't get a consistent canter either.

WOW sounds like someone definitely woke up on the wrong side of the bed (shame shame)!

I STAND by what I say that this horse has no conformation flaws to stop it from cantering.
The picture of the young lady riding is at an angle and is NOT a conformational shot and including the picture YOU supplied here. Again, this proves NOTHING but bad advice :-:)-(

You still do not get the fact that the OP posted that she is ABLE to canter on the trail but not in a arena. This again tells me that the horse is able to canter but sounds more like a balance issue than conformational issue as you stated.

As for disaster, would be that this OP stops training her horse to canter because of a stupid OLD MYTH! Gaited horses CAN CANTER! You also mention about "all the hard work to put in the canter" well it's called training and it all depends on the horse on how long the training will take (and the quality of trainer/training) You even go on to mention that if the "WHOLE GAITED WORLD WOULD FORGET ABOUT CANTERING BECAUSE THE RACK IS JUST AS FAST AS A CANTER" but you forget about all the horse shows that show these horses not only in "GAIT but a CANTER" too:-p:-p
Teaching a gaited horse will NOT ruin a horses gait! It has been already proven that training a gaited horse to canter teaches them to use their hind quarters more instead of being heavy on the forequarters!

You stated numerous times about my ability to learn YOUR WAY of the gaited horse training because you feel you are right and how others won't listen to you. You get angry and make nasty comments to others when we post our opinions and PROVEN suggestions to help the OP and others with gaited horse problems.
It is the OP's choice to use which ever method or advice given so stick that in you old pipe and smoke it:-p

OP,
A video would be very helpful. Sorry for the drama and hope that you are able to weed through the BS to find a solution for you and your horse.:)
 
#35 ·
Really, I've seen a whole bunch of them that
can not canter. Sure with enough training,
you can teach them to do the spanish fiesta too.

A whole lot of the Pasos, and Peruvians
simply have a tough time with the canter.

If the entire gaited community would
forget the canter, they'd all be a lot
better off. Very few are natural at it. There
are those where the canter can help get
them started, but there are much better ways.

And I ask why would you want a canter,
when they can gait faster than any horse
can canter? It takes a whole lot less effort
to teach the rack, than it does to teach a
down hill TWH to canter.

If you really want to make a difference get
the breeders to stop breeding the down hill
horses. Problem is, very few, even know
what your taking about.
 
#37 ·
I'm not sure I agree that this horse is "downhill." The photo Bob posted tells us nothing because you can't see anything definitive (the photo is too far away; the rider's duster is covering a bunch of the horse; gait really is difficult to judge from still photos).

The way you get a "downhill" horse to lighten in the front is use the leg to push the back end forward and that will lift the front. Living horses are not rocking horses or see-saws (where when one side goes up the other must go down).

Some video would answer a bunch of questions.

G.
 
#44 · (Edited)
'but just because a horse is pacey does not mean they are downhill inevitably."

Very true, being pacey has nothing to do with being downhill. BUT, if they are downhill it is easier for them to pace than it is to do a running walk or rack. In order to do be natural at the running walk or rack, they must be light in the front. Downhill horse are not naturally light in the front, by definition(unless they are terrible mal form, and this horse is not mal formed, his major flaw is being downhill). And with some breeds they prefer them down hill. The QH is a classic example. They have an easier time going with the head down if they are down hill, however, the more athletic QHs that do cutting and the like are more athletic, and do better if they are uphill. So what do the do? They train the athletic ones to go with the head down. And with some of them, that is a major undertaking.

I assume everyone knows how to tell if one is up or down hill. That may be a bad assumption. Just to refresh. You measure from the dimple in the gaskin to the ground, then measure from the point of the elbow on the front leg to the ground. Then compare the results. This horse is about 3" down hill. Even big lick shoes and/or growing a reasonable heal will not make him uphill.

I know you can not measure the legs of the horse I pictured, but you can tell how he is light in the front and doing it easily. He measures a little over 4" uphill.

Now if you have a horse that is exactly equal(or nearly equal) front to back, then the toe lengths front and back may be very critical. You can take a trotty horse that is equal and lower him as little as a 1/4" in the rear and make a huge difference in getting him to be more natural with his gait(running walk or rack). Or increase the front toe by as little as 1/8" and do the same. These horses are the ones that require a pro farrier, to keep them going. They are also the ones that will very often have problems either immediately after being trimmed or just before they need a trim. Seldom do they grow equally, with time, from front to back.
 
#45 ·
"There is more than one reason why big lick horse have long
Heavy front feet. Yes, the weight helps, put they take many a down hill horse
And make then artificially uphill. If they don't, they can't get a consistent canter either."

My misunderstanding, I had thought you meant in general that pacey horses with big lick builds were downhill. My point was to differentiate that just because they are pacey (big lick as your example) does not always mean they are downhill. You have elaborated and that makes sense. Some of those big lick horses walk beautifully on their own and sadly owners pad them up to exaggerate it even more. My mother in law brought a mare up from Tennessee (joses red hot chile pepper) she was a padded show mare before coming to the barn. She has a hard pace because it was trained into her from pads but naturally she gaits extremely well and canters naturally too.

Perhaps Trailriderr can measure her horse to see if he is in fact downhill...to me, he doesnt look downhill but rather like a horse with zero experience cantering with a rider who is not exactly sure how to position/communicate on her horse what she wants from him so he dcan understand it ... My mare is not downhill whatsoever, with that being said when I first started cantering her she would put her head down and get clumsy, rush into it, be unbalanced, start pacing ...part of that was me and part of that was her learning what to do with her feet and how to in fact canter. It is easy for a horse to break into a fast canter with their herd on whatever lead they want and follow their body. Not so easy for them to be told where to put it -but when you are teaching a horse to do something for the first time they can be clumsy too.

Trailriderr, are you able to measure your boy as bbsmfg3 has outlined?

Some other info on balance and conformation
Evaluating Horse Conformation | CAES Publications | UGA
 
#46 ·
Hi everyone! just measured Memphis and he was 32" from elbow to the ground and about 35" from dimple of gaskin to the ground, so he is about 3" down hill. I took him on a 5 hr trail ride Saturday and he did really good. He was really smooth with his running walk, we racked, I think. And a little bit of cantering! I still have not tried it in the arena as I think a BIG part of it is me. I caught my self quite a bit leaning forward when he would start. I think because I am anticipating him doing something uncomfortable or jumping into it at a gallop. He is smoother and much nicer on the trail so I think I am going to keep practicing out there until we both get our confidence up and then go back to the arena. Oh and I did notice his running walk is getting smooth and faster since I have been cantering him though...Thanks everyone for all the help and words of advice!!! I will love my boy no matter if he never can get the canter down in the arena or not because trail riding is my thing anyway. And like I said it is smoothing out a LOT out there!!! :)))
 
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