Can someone explain a gaited horse to me? - Page 11
 
 

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Can someone explain a gaited horse to me?

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    12-03-2010, 07:30 AM
  #101
Yearling
The second horse looked a bit pacey to me also...I would love to see the judges marks on these tests! It should be zero for all trot work, since none was performed & it should be near 3 or 4 for the walk work because of the lateral walk performed. I honestly do not see the point of taking a gaited horse into the dressage ring. Even though correct circles are good, the key element that is being judged in a Dressage test are the gaits of the horse & how close they are to ideal. So a lateral moving horse would always score very low. Even in the lower levels, the judge is to be determining if the horse has potenial to reach GP.

So unless there is some sort of gaited dressage specialty class or something, why would they try and compete? But I would be very interested to know by what rules a gaited dressage test could be judged on, since it so clearly is incorrect.
     
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    12-03-2010, 11:00 AM
  #102
Foal
YUCK! That video of a coming 2 year old TWH is awful. Yes, that's the turtle way of riding. This is very disturbing to me. 1) that gait is hardly natural to the breed..or maybe the better way to say it, would be the WAY the horse preforms it is in no way natural 2) They shouldnt be riding a two year old like that. IMO two year olds should not even be ridden other then LIGHT saddle work. I don't train a horse to saddle until they are three and do a lot of ground work before hand. Some people think three is to young. They may be right. Lol. That vidoe makes me sick to my stomach.
     
    12-03-2010, 01:21 PM
  #103
Yearling
The Big Lick gait is "manufactured."

Put another way, it's "nailed on" not "trained in."

Regarding Dressage, there is "Dressage" (with a "D") and "dressage" (with a "d"). The "D" means competitive walk, trot, and canter in a highly stylized setting. The "d" means little more than "training" and can be done in a wide variety of circumstances.

I've got a book on my shelf entitled A Dressage Judges Handbook by BGEN Kurt Albrecht. It's interesting reading. More interesting is that it includes a series of engravings from The Training of Horses for School and Battle by Johann Elias Riginger, published in 1760. Many show gaited horses of the day being prepared for military use using the same movements common in the Dressage/dressage horses of the day. The movements are also commonly seen today.

While today's competition Dressage is quite narrow in its scope, it has roots that go back far and wide.

Some time back the U.S. Dressage Federation was asked to consider adopting standards for "gaited horse dressage." They declined to do so at least in part due to the vast complexity of gaited horse movement. They felt it was difficult enough training judges to effectively recognize correctly done walks, trots, and canters. Adding the vast array of "soft" gaits would be unworkable. Given that even within some breeds there is no real agreement on what a given gait should be I think the USDF decision was reasonable.

This does not mean that breed or other associations can't create "dressage" tests and evaluate how well they are done. But it will be "dressage" not "Dressage."

G.
     
    12-03-2010, 02:13 PM
  #104
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by IA Pony    
YUCK! That video of a coming 2 year old TWH is awful. Yes, that's the turtle way of riding. This is very disturbing to me. 1) that gait is hardly natural to the breed..or maybe the better way to say it, would be the WAY the horse preforms it is in no way natural 2) They shouldnt be riding a two year old like that. IMO two year olds should not even be ridden other then LIGHT saddle work. I don't train a horse to saddle until they are three and do a lot of ground work before hand. Some people think three is to young. They may be right. Lol. That vidoe makes me sick to my stomach.
This "turtle" posture is only seen on padded horses (IMO) and was not the posture I referred to as "sitting back".

There are people on here new to gaited horses who did not know what the "big lick" walk was, which is why I posted it. However, I chose this one because it had so many of the bad practices included in one clip!

Maybe some did not notice, but the horse is also wearing blinders, which I doubt are open. Her head is tied down & his hands are low, so she has probably flipped over at least once. He is riding with spurs too, and you can see where they would hit on the mare. The tail has been "set" and yes, she is under 2 years old.

I doubt this mare will be in a show ring for very long & probably won't survive much beyond it.
     
    12-03-2010, 02:56 PM
  #105
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilherme    
The Big Lick gait is "manufactured."

Put another way, it's "nailed on" not "trained in."

Regarding Dressage, there is "Dressage" (with a "D") and "dressage" (with a "d"). The "D" means competitive walk, trot, and canter in a highly stylized setting. The "d" means little more than "training" and can be done in a wide variety of circumstances.

I've got a book on my shelf entitled A Dressage Judges Handbook by BGEN Kurt Albrecht. It's interesting reading. More interesting is that it includes a series of engravings from The Training of Horses for School and Battle by Johann Elias Riginger, published in 1760. Many show gaited horses of the day being prepared for military use using the same movements common in the Dressage/dressage horses of the day. The movements are also commonly seen today.

While today's competition Dressage is quite narrow in its scope, it has roots that go back far and wide.

Some time back the U.S. Dressage Federation was asked to consider adopting standards for "gaited horse dressage." They declined to do so at least in part due to the vast complexity of gaited horse movement. They felt it was difficult enough training judges to effectively recognize correctly done walks, trots, and canters. Adding the vast array of "soft" gaits would be unworkable. Given that even within some breeds there is no real agreement on what a given gait should be I think the USDF decision was reasonable.

This does not mean that breed or other associations can't create "dressage" tests and evaluate how well they are done. But it will be "dressage" not "Dressage."

G.
Yes, the USEF and other Dressage governing boards/associations were what I referred to in my above post. Although there may not be agreement in breed organizations on what constitutes a correct gait, there are indeed very specific requirements on all of the gaits performed in any sanctioned Dressage competion, of any breed of horse (and now mules too). I.e. The requirements are not breed specific, even though the judges are taught the "typical" gaits of particular breeds.

So, as an example, I was able to teach my QH how to move like a "mini-warmblood" (quoted term from auditors in clinic) and also be extremely precise in my figures, allowing me to be competative against horses that had much better "God given" gaits naturally. The judges can absolutely recognize when a rider has improved the gaits on an Arab, Morgan, QH, etc.

However, the gaited horse has as stated many times, lateral gaits, and although some improvement may be able to be made on the quality of those gaits, I do not think it is fair to a horse to ask them to perform in ways that are so difficult for them. If one wants to do Dressage, then get a horse that has W/T/C. (IMO)

As for the difference between a capital or lower-case dressage, I don't see a difference. (IMO) Unless "dressage" is the word for training in the native language (which is not the case in USA), then it should only be used in the definition to mean the "systematic training of the horse by the training scale" (that was intended to be in brief).

If breeds with lateral movements want to test competitors in specific movements to show the correct training of a horse as evidenced by performance of defined gaits & figures, I really think that it should be called by another name. (IMO) Anything else is confusing to the competitor and especially the general public as a whole. IMO, there is enough confusion already with the sport, why add more? Many times I have heard, "Oh, you ride dressage; that is where you ride around in circles in a ring, right?".

I get a lot of flack from my fellow Dressage riders when I say I like gaited horses & I feel they have good points, so please do not think that I am a DQ that thinks all other equine sports are beneath me, nothing could be further from the truth! I enjoy participating in most all equine sports from driving to barrel racing! One time I even combined driving & barrel racing, but it was only for demonstration purposes only, I easily accepted that our time would be eliminated because I was did not have the required tack, I.e a saddle!

Another thing that one must always consider when reading books is, that they are not infallable either, nor can all books, no matter the quality of the source at the time, be correct for all ages. I balance what I read with my experience, and come up with what works for me. I could quote you books that describe in detail exactly how to throw a horse, including what kind & length of rope. "Throwing a horse" was the accepted way to start a colt for many years by many respected instructors. I would guess that there are not many equestrians today that would recommend or practice that method today. I love history & would enjoy spending more time reading about the horses & teaching methods of the past, however, due to time constraints, I really need to focus more on the here & now. No offense meant, and I would absolutely LOVE IT if you would consider sending me a list of titles of books that you have found to be of value. Seriously, please consider sending me a list privately!

I have rambled way too much now I see, and have gone completely off topic! Please forgive me...AA
     
    12-03-2010, 03:14 PM
  #106
Yearling
PS - If someone advertised a horse as "showing 2nd level, schooling 3rd" I would expect that horse to have reached a specific point in the training scale with a certain frame, quality of gaits & training, etc. I would be a bit ticked off if I went to look at that horse I was shown a gaited horse that had lateral movements. I would consider that to be misleading, which is why I think the gaited breeds should not use the term "dressage or Dressage". We don't rope or cut cattle or jump in dressage either, so why do others want to change Dressage to mean something specific for them? (IMO)
     
    12-03-2010, 03:51 PM
  #107
Foal
OH! I thought that's what you meant when you said that was the way to ride a gaited horse!! LOL! OOPS. Sorry! I agree with everything you said about that video. Poor horse.
     
    12-04-2010, 11:00 AM
  #108
Yearling
I will offer another opinion, not to stir debate but to chime in with another perspective. A little background, first - my TWH mare came to me with her walk, running walk and backing, and nothing else. She's built downhill (butt higher than withers) and carried herself high-headed even under saddle. Having read Zeigler and Whittington and being aware of the hollow back leading to unsoundness, I wanted to strengthen her back and abdominal muscles. I believed that the training that dressage horses start with would do that for us. (little 'd' or big 'D'?)

So, we started on flexing, being in the bridle, not locking her jaw, and rounding and softening. Then, we stqarted on two tracking and this summer moved to side passing. It's been a long two years and my 2 goals are to keep her healthy and sound, and to open gates on trail so she had to be able to side pass to the gate for me to get a hand on it. Both goals are met (but I found I'm a klutz with the gate latches, not the horse's fault though!)

So, I would not say that I do dressage, but I would rather think that I used some of the basics from 'dressage' disciplines as best as I could. I am very very happy with the results. I give credit to the 'dressage' approach more than the current fad of western training which flexes the horse's nose around to the rider's boot. There is no natural movement of the horse that requires them to move in that position. However, if they can flex enough so that you can see their eye, that is a beautiful and soft way of going IMO. When we started, that wasn't possible with my mare. So, I think there are some of us who don't show in "D" or "d" dressage, nor ever intend to (but admire those of you who can!). We borrow from your discipline to make our horsemanship better, and our horses better. Like AnitaAnne, I'm a lifelong learner and find it very interesting how much there is to learn about the other disciplines.

HRSRDR, your comment about soring is 100% correct. If you google "friends of sound horses" you'll find a web site that has a very informative (but graphic) web site educating us on the issues of the torture of 'big lick' horses for the purpose of winning at shows. There are many different things that the trainers do, but they are all designed to add weight or discomfort, at best, and severe pain at worst, to get the horse to throw its front feet up and out in front for that high action. The horse does that to take the pressure off the tender skin or hoof tissue for a split second of relief. I agree with Guilherme's observation that the big lick gait is "nailed on" instead of trained in -- well said. There's a lot of money in 'big lick' horses but there are a lot of gaited horse owners that are committed to sound horse practices and working to wipe out soring practices in this lifetime. Wish us luck.
     
    12-04-2010, 04:48 PM
  #109
Yearling
Yes, Ladytrails, dressage principles can and should be used on every horse to help them use their body in a more effective way, however, those priciples have been developed to improve the gaits in a specific way, including the avoidance of lateral gaits. So IMO, a gaited horse has to have some adjustments to the training to prevent causing the horse to do loose the very trait that makes them special & unique!

The western horse has "reining" which are specific movements & patterns prized by the western rider. Although they use some dresage principles, they do not copy the entire concept and the end goal is different. IMO, gaited horses should have their own tests that encourage instead of discouraging the natural lateral action.

Maybe we could come up with a unique & special name for this new class and present it to the gaited horse associations and/or governing bodies???

How about Raccage? (Pronounced like dressage) Maybe there is a different word to be used for the Rack or lateral???
     
    12-07-2010, 07:11 PM
  #110
Weanling
Lol. I honestly don't see why you couldn't make some special dressage tests for gaited horses. I LOVE dressage (it ties with Cross-country for my favorite event phase, which many people find astonishing) and see only benefits in introducing a horse to its basics, gaited or no. Obviously I don't have as much say because I have never ridden a gaited horse, but I still don't see why you can't go competitive with specialized tests for horses with lateral gaits. I'm not offended by "costomizing" dressage tests...they had a division in the World Equestrian Games this year for riders with disabilities and I thought it was great. IMO the world would be much better place for horses if all horses were at least trained in the basics instead of being forced to prance around like that little 2 year old TWH in the video (you comments apalled me Anita) or going around with their chin in their chest, their nuchal ligament (the ligament along the top of the neck) stretched to breaking point in the "pleasure" classes. I can rant all day about how amazing it is to be 100% in tune with your horse, be it a little QH or a hot TB. I am open to arguments, though...after all, the reason I started this thread was because I know next to nothing about gaited horses. :)

LadyTrails, that website made me want to throw up. I certainly wish you luck eliminating that!!! :(
     

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