Can't get gaited mare to canter! - Page 3
 
 

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Can't get gaited mare to canter!

This is a discussion on Can't get gaited mare to canter! within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • How can you make a horse canter more slowly
  • I cant canter yet, but really want a horse

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    03-06-2013, 08:20 PM
  #21
Weanling
Haven't had a chance to work on the canter yet because I am still working on some respect issues the horse has, and my client isn't super concerned with the canter it's more or less something I teach all my horses. I am going to work towards getting a canter from her still though just having to continue her ground work to get her to stop her aggressive ness. Her owner has let her get away with a lot over the past year or so she has owned it and it's created a monster...
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    03-06-2013, 09:08 PM
  #22
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palomine    
What breed is this horse?

Try this, if horse is Saddlebred?

Start from stop, not trotting or walking.

Turn head to rail at the same time move hindquarters away from rail two steps, shorten railside rein as you give on opposite side with rein.

Reach behind girth with rail leg and cue at same time as other toe comes forward to cue behind elbow.

This will bring hind under to set up for canter and horse will be leaning into it so will pick up correct lead.
What would breed have to do with this????

You are right about starting from a stand still and with the cueing.

As for the person who mentioned about collection and cantering. All gaits need collection regardless of breed, gait or etc. In order to achieve a well rounded, smooth gait needs collection. "true collection"

Actually IMO teaching a horse to canter helps develop a solid gait.
     
    03-06-2013, 11:15 PM
  #23
Weanling
I didn't read everything but my mother in law has a horse that won't canter, he just racks. She timed up beside me on a slight hill and he picked it up. My gelding had a hard time cantering inside, he was fine outside but couldn't inside as initially he felt too closed in and would baulk before he had a chance to pick it up.
Just a couple thoughts.
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    03-07-2013, 11:19 AM
  #24
Weanling
My horse was trained not to canter. Now in that pasture he will. But on him he racks and boy hidey can he rack fast.Too fast for me. I was told he was trained this way from early on cause they wanted a speed racker out of him..Maybe that is the case with some of these walkers that don't canter.
     
    03-07-2013, 12:11 PM
  #25
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaited07    
As for the person who mentioned about collection and cantering. All gaits need collection regardless of breed, gait or etc. In order to achieve a well rounded, smooth gait needs collection. "true collection"
Every gait doesn't need true collection to be smooth and well-rounded. Here is a couple paragraphs out a book by a very experienced gaited horse trainer. In case you want to know what book it is titled Easy Gaited Horses by Lee Ziegler.

"Easy -gaited horses do not reach the degree of roundness necessary for collected trot work, let alone the that needed for a correct piaffe. Because the easy gaits require a type of elasticity in the back that is reduced when there is much tension in the ligament cable system (the same elasticity that allows non-gaited foals to do easy gaits for a short time in their lives), gaited horses do most of their gaits in a neutral to somewhat hollow position.

Despite the arched necks and high heads you may see in some gaited horses, very few of them work their bodies in more than a slightly rounded neutral position. To test the degree of true collection possible in any particular gait, ride a gaited horse in his gait. Then teach him to round his body correctly, creating a bascule in his back, and working sustained downward flexion at the lumbosacral junction in a truly collected position. As he becomes more round, he will generally lose his easy gait and start trotting.
"

Most gaited horses pace with the most hollow back position, do a stepping pace with a slightly less hollow back, do the various racking gaits with even less inversion, and so on. As the gaits get squarer and more "trotty" the horse will be able to get more and more collected. But most gaited horses will be "contained" not truly collected.

And here is a bit about collection and gaited horses from an experienced someone on another forum. I think it explains my point very well.

"I don't consider gaited horses to be collected at any gait in the true dressage sense of the term.

I think when gaited horse trainers or riders say something like "Collect the horse up more.", what they mean is "shorten your reins and take a little more contact with the horse's mouth."


In the dressage sense of the word, "Collect the horse up more." would mean to ride the horse so that his hind legs come up underneath him more, so that he "sits" more on haunches and comes up in the shoulder and wither. The gaits would then take on more energy and have more amplitude and lift.


In a true flat walk and running walk, you would not want to have any amplitude or lift, because when that happens, you are going to get more flexing of the hocks, instead of having the horse sweep the hind leg forward."


Q. "Do you consider the "level" back of the fw/rw to be a truly "collected" back in the dressage sense of the word?"


A. "No. A collected back in the dressage world would mean very rounded. This very rounded back comes from the horse bringing his hind legs further underneath his body and "sitting" down on his haunches and lowering his croup. He actually tucks his butt under, if that makes any sense.


I consider the level back or slightly rounded back of the running walk to be more of a neutral back.

In order for any gait to be collected in the classical sense, the gait has to have suspension. The fw, rw, pace, stepping pace, rack, etc. don't have any suspension.
"

Now here's a little bit on collection and cantering with gaited horses:

"Could a gaited horse be collected in the classical sense when he is traveling at a canter? Yes. And, that's where that famous rocking horse canter comes from - not getting the horse to canter more slowly really, but engaging the hindquarters further under the body so that the canter has "jump" and suspension to it, and at the same time, slowing down the front end through use of half halts to keep the horse balanced over the hindquarters and to recycle that suspended energy back into the hindquarters of the horse.
     
    03-07-2013, 12:23 PM
  #26
Green Broke
It is easiest to teach them going up an incline. Not to steep of course but they will naturally want to canter up a hill
     
    03-07-2013, 08:44 PM
  #27
Green Broke
--

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallee    
haven't had a chance to work on the canter yet because I am still working on some respect issues the horse has, and my client isn't super concerned with the canter it's more or less something I teach all my horses. I am going to work towards getting a canter from her still though just having to continue her ground work to get her to stop her aggressive ness.

Her owner has let her get away with a lot over the past year or so she has owned it and it's created a monster...terrific. I hope the owner is going to take some lessons with you on how to manage the horse. "get away with" sounds like either fear factor or "mummy doesn't want you to do that so please stop" because she just can't bring herself to discipline her 1,100 pound lap dog
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    03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
  #28
Weanling
Walkinthewalk you are exactly right!
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    03-08-2013, 12:08 PM
  #29
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseCrazyTeen    
Every gait doesn't need true collection to be smooth and well-rounded. Here is a couple paragraphs out a book by a very experienced gaited horse trainer. In case you want to know what book it is titled Easy Gaited Horses by Lee Ziegler.

"Easy -gaited horses do not reach the degree of roundness necessary for collected trot work, let alone the that needed for a correct piaffe. Because the easy gaits require a type of elasticity in the back that is reduced when there is much tension in the ligament cable system (the same elasticity that allows non-gaited foals to do easy gaits for a short time in their lives), gaited horses do most of their gaits in a neutral to somewhat hollow position.

Despite the arched necks and high heads you may see in some gaited horses, very few of them work their bodies in more than a slightly rounded neutral position. To test the degree of true collection possible in any particular gait, ride a gaited horse in his gait. Then teach him to round his body correctly, creating a bascule in his back, and working sustained downward flexion at the lumbosacral junction in a truly collected position. As he becomes more round, he will generally lose his easy gait and start trotting. "

Most gaited horses pace with the most hollow back position, do a stepping pace with a slightly less hollow back, do the various racking gaits with even less inversion, and so on. As the gaits get squarer and more "trotty" the horse will be able to get more and more collected. But most gaited horses will be "contained" not truly collected.
Quote:
So if the horse is pacing with a hollow back, stepping pace with slightly less and etc., why wouldn't you want a horse rounded or slightly rounded to put the into the right frame to gait properly?
And here is a bit about collection and gaited horses from an experienced someone on another forum. I think it explains my point very well.

"I don't consider gaited horses to be collected at any gait in the true dressage sense of the term.
Quote:
So what's the "true dressage sense" ??? Again, dressage is TRAINING. Not the same foot print will work with all but the baseline is the same when applied to the individual horse and their abilities.


I think when gaited horse trainers or riders say something like "Collect the horse up more.", what they mean is "shorten your reins and take a little more contact with the horse's mouth."
Quote:
I agree with this statement because that is the belief of MOST gaited (and non) trainers/handlers. Bits with mile long shanks to give a false collection and pads, chains and etc to give lift in the frontend and to sit all the way back so the horse reaches with his hindend to get under his rider.



The horse needs to engage the hindquarters TO the bit by just closing hands on the reins (half halts) to let the horses hindquarters drive into the bit.
In the dressage sense of the word, "Collect the horse up more." would mean to ride the horse so that his hind legs come up underneath him more, so that he "sits" more on haunches and comes up in the shoulder and wither. The gaits would then take on more energy and have more amplitude and lift.
Quote:
True, the definition of dressage is TRAINING and yes collect the horse would mean the same ;) Again I don't agree with the amplitude or lift. It teaches the horse to drive from the hindquarters.
In a true flat walk and running walk, you would not want to have any amplitude or lift, because when that happens, you are going to get more flexing of the hocks, instead of having the horse sweep the hind leg forward." [quot]
Your not teaching a gaited horse LIFT or amplitude. Your teaching the horse to reach and drive from the hindend.
Q. "Do you consider the "level" back of the fw/rw to be a truly "collected" back in the dressage sense of the word?"

A. "No. A collected back in the dressage world would mean very rounded. This very rounded back comes from the horse bringing his hind legs further underneath his body and "sitting" down on his haunches and lowering his croup. He actually tucks his butt under, if that makes any sense.
Quote:
As in any training, you use what works with your horse and not every horse will be VERY ROUNDED in order to be collected. Its teaching your horse to drive from the hindquarters verse leading with the forequarters.


I consider the level back or slightly rounded back of the running walk to be more of a neutral back.

In order for any gait to be collected in the classical sense, the gait has to have suspension. The fw, rw, pace, stepping pace, rack, etc. don't have any suspension."
Quote:
slightly rounded or rounded back is engaging the hindquarters and actually a neutral has SOME drive from the hindend verse a hallowed back horse with the drive from the front end.
More and more gaited horse people are practicing the classical sense of training of their horses today with raving reviews and success. Do some research ;)
I've been practicing classical dressage with my gaited horses and LOVE the results!
Now here's a little bit on collection and cantering with gaited horses:

"Could a gaited horse be collected in the classical sense when he is traveling at a canter? Yes. And, that's where that famous rocking horse canter comes from - not getting the horse to canter more slowly really, but engaging the hindquarters further under the body so that the canter has "jump" and suspension to it, and at the same time, slowing down the front end through use of half halts to keep the horse balanced over the hindquarters and to recycle that suspended energy back into the hindquarters of the horse.[/QUOTE]

Above is some ofter my thoughts on the matter. I've been training and working gaited horses since the early 70's and seen and done a lot lol but with education, trial and error have found the most successful way to work with gaited horses and achieve the correct gait by using dressage techniques.
     
    03-10-2013, 05:42 AM
  #30
Foal
I went through this with my first horse, he had never been taught to canter.
Trying to push him into canter under saddle was a nightmare for both of us. He was so uncordinated it was almost impossible to stay on. Let alone give any sort of consistant cue.

I discovered work him on the lunge or roundyard, the second he was cantering I would say the word 'canter ' with each successful stride and tell him what a good boy he was. Until he understood the word meant the gait.

He would then strike off into a beautiful canter on command, it took him months to develop the muscling and rytham to maintain the canter for a full circle then continue more circles without losing rytham and balance, then and only then did I ride him and ask for 'canter' the result was pure delight.

It really is a case of make haste slowly. The rewards are well worth it.

I forget where to find it now. But someone has discovered the gene is linked to the awkwardness you see in transitions of gaited horses, they need much more practice to get it right and stay in coordiation during transitions so easier on you and the horse to get that practice without the rider struggling to stay in rytham while getting the hang of it first.
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