Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :) - Page 4
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics > Horse Breeds > Gaited Horses

Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :)

This is a discussion on Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :) within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Why do people ride in chains and stretchies
  • Dresage soring

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    12-14-2008, 07:28 PM
  #31
Weanling
In order for soring to occur, you must leave the chains on (and tightly) for a LONG period of time (much longer than I would ever reccomend).. A typical training session for a saddleseat horse would be:

Use of splint boots front and back, weighted bell boots in the front and chains/leather straps in the back. Ride for about 30-45 minutes.. Using stretchies for about 5-15 minutes in the beginning (depending on how built up they are, if its their first time, 5 minutes.. If they are used to it 15 or so minutes) Also, while the stretchies are on the weighted bell boots are not. Once the workout is nearing over, you may trot with the stretchies on again much more lightly the second time, for another 5 or so minutes.
You don't use stretchies every day or weighted bell boots, some days you put chains on the front legs and work lightly. Some days you just long line or drive for a much lighter workout. As long as your horse doesn't have show shoes on, then you can do hills and trails to help build muscle.

A smart trainer uses all of their outlets reasonably, whether they be mechanical or natural.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    12-14-2008, 07:31 PM
  #32
Showing
I read that at least in the TWH world any of the old soring methods have been outlawed. I'm sure any methods you are using are legal humane methods. Sorry if you felt offended.
     
    12-14-2008, 07:52 PM
  #33
Zab
Yearling
First off, I think the way the horses move there is too extreme and ugly, but that's just me. I doubt it's healthy but again, just me.

About the weird hobbles; I don't know how they work. I don't like the idea of putting weird shoes on a horse or lots of the other things that ALL saddleseat showers does (If there is other saddleseat shows than the ones where the horse walks extremely uphill with large shoes/extensions I'm not referring to those more natural ways) simply because I cannot imagine it being healthy to the horse to move that way. It's too extreme. And no, I don't think it's very healthy for a jumping horse to jump 150cm either, but it's still different when it's performed in a gait rather than 1 jump - normal gaits - 1 more jump etc. But those conclusions are just made after what I see that's obvious, and what I know about horse anatomy and so on.
The cruel methods I hear of, I have no idea how common they are. I don't know exactly how the 'normal' training methods are used and works, and then I can't know if they're bad or not. But the movement in itself, in the shows, are too extreme to be healthy.

And I wouldn't use any of the weird (for me) things there are, because I don't like what I see of them, and I can't find a reason to use them.

Yes, you can force the horse to do a lot of things they're not physically fit to do. Look at rollkur in dressage. Can a TWH walk with those high forelegs and extreme posture in the pasture if it has normal hooves and no gear attatched to it?

And of course there is abuse in all sports and diciplines. Especially those judged on appearance (dressage, saddleseat, surely WP too, dog breeding) rather than function (jumping, trail I think etc) even if there is abuse in those too. It's just that appearance sports tends to get extreme and abusive in itself since the more extreme it looks, the better. And extreme is far from natural. In jumping, you can look how you want as long as the horse gets over the fence. In dresage you have to look a certain way and there is no obvious way to see which one is better (no broken obstacle).

But this is not what the thread is about so lets end the discussion. You've had your say, I've had mine.
     
    12-14-2008, 08:05 PM
  #34
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissimut-icehestar    
that's a valid point but the shows are not all breeding show... actually, few of them are

Yes I guess it's different in Iceland. Here it's mostly breeders that participate in shows. There are so few Icelandic shows around that it would be too much traveling for ordinary riders.
     
    12-14-2008, 08:14 PM
  #35
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy    
Yes I guess it's different in Iceland. Here it's mostly breeders that participate in shows. There are so few Icelandic shows around that it would be too much traveling for ordinary riders.
What I meant was that some are sport shows (the common ones) others are breeding shows.
The sport shows are about what the rider can bring out in the horse, not about how well the horse will give his/her offspring it's qualities. Therefore there are geldings in the sport shows.
     
    12-14-2008, 09:23 PM
  #36
Weanling
Great post, drop your reins!
     
    12-14-2008, 10:06 PM
  #37
Zab
Yearling
Ok, these is what I'll put on him.. x) If I made them big enough.. >_>;
I compared the weight with my watch - my watch weighs a good deal more. X) And no soring, or chains or anything else there. If they have any affect at all, but I doubt it, it would be that he notices his legs more, because they surely can't cause any discomfort.
The backside is just flat leather.


     
    12-14-2008, 10:59 PM
  #38
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab    
First off, I think the way the horses move there is too extreme and ugly, but that's just me. I doubt it's healthy but again, just me.

About the weird hobbles; I don't know how they work. I don't like the idea of putting weird shoes on a horse or lots of the other things that ALL saddleseat showers does (If there is other saddleseat shows than the ones where the horse walks extremely uphill with large shoes/extensions I'm not referring to those more natural ways) simply because I cannot imagine it being healthy to the horse to move that way. It's too extreme. And no, I don't think it's very healthy for a jumping horse to jump 150cm either, but it's still different when it's performed in a gait rather than 1 jump - normal gaits - 1 more jump etc. But those conclusions are just made after what I see that's obvious, and what I know about horse anatomy and so on.
The cruel methods I hear of, I have no idea how common they are. I don't know exactly how the 'normal' training methods are used and works, and then I can't know if they're bad or not. But the movement in itself, in the shows, are too extreme to be healthy.

And I wouldn't use any of the weird (for me) things there are, because I don't like what I see of them, and I can't find a reason to use them.

Yes, you can force the horse to do a lot of things they're not physically fit to do. Look at rollkur in dressage. Can a TWH walk with those high forelegs and extreme posture in the pasture if it has normal hooves and no gear attatched to it?

And of course there is abuse in all sports and diciplines. Especially those judged on appearance (dressage, saddleseat, surely WP too, dog breeding) rather than function (jumping, trail I think etc) even if there is abuse in those too. It's just that appearance sports tends to get extreme and abusive in itself since the more extreme it looks, the better. And extreme is far from natural. In jumping, you can look how you want as long as the horse gets over the fence. In dresage you have to look a certain way and there is no obvious way to see which one is better (no broken obstacle).

But this is not what the thread is about so lets end the discussion. You've had your say, I've had mine.

Before I start, Thank you Beau.

I should have clarified, I would not force any of my horses to do something they weren't physically talented to do, and none of the trainers.. at least the successful ones in the business.. that I know of would endorse it either.

If these horses weren't naturally so talented, you couldn't put a walk trotter up on them, and have them perform almost equally the same with a trainer. I guaruntee you a walk-trotter cannot get a horse to rolkur. If these horses weren't naturally talented, you would not see them trotting above level in a field "showing off" and snorting. You cannot produce a high trot that's not already there, at least without being physically abusive. And lets get real, about 98% of the business are normal trainers and riders who want happy and HEALTHY horses. In this business, you have to have money to make money and very few people are in it to make money. Most people do it because they love it, especially a sport as expensive as saddleseat. (Where suits alone run $2-5,000) If you didn't absolutely love it, then it wouldn't be smart financially for you to waste your time. The horses are worth (well with this falling economy, I'm sure less..) upwards of $50,000.. Some horses sell at auctions for well over $100,000. Why on earth would you want to waste $100k by ruining your horse with abusive techniques?

Tell me how my trainer's mare who competed English Pleasure in the 80s, is in her late 20s and perfectly healthy other than Cushing's, which is safe to say has nothing to do with the way she was trained. Her legs are sound. This mare's full brother who competed western pleasure actually has joint issues, which is funny because western pleasure (at least on the morgan scene) is lower impact. (Ironically, too from your thread, he carried a very long toe and padded shoe at shows, similar to a saddleseat horse.. :P)

As far as TWHs I don't know much about them, cannot comment on them, but you will see saddle breeds (such as Morgans) exhibiting extreme motion, in the pasture, in other disciplines. Its in their blood, its not something that's falsified.

This is a hunter pleasure horse, shod normally and probably had no training or conditioning or reason (other than excitement from a win) to raise his legs so high.. He may have been trained in the past, I don't know him or his personal history so don't quote me on it. But He's extremely collected and probably very excited because he obviously won. And look how high he's trotting, almost equal to an english pleasure horse, without shoes or training:
Display Photograph

Another hunter horse, not quite as impressive, but same story as the last one
Display Photograph

And a horse who was trained and conditioned
Display Photograph

The difference is very subtle. What makes it? Well a lot of very high steppers go hunters when they don't have the correct headset or they don't have impressive hocks. Their not forced to put their head in an unnatural position just to compete saddleseat, their not forced (obviously, or the first hunter would have definitely been an English horse in my book) to raise their legs high.

This horse has shoes, it looks like their padded, but I can't tell. Regardless, He's still trotting high in his pasture, I don't care what you say I couldn't make a horse trot this high in a pasture (shoes or not) unless they wanted to... How could he know what you want?

Another horse free trotting, yes he has shoes, but again, could make a horse trot high without even touching them? If so please enlighten me ;)
http://www.broadmor.com/images/05astro.jpg

This one is my filly, she had no formal training at all at this point, except she lunged for the first time that day. She has no shoes on. Nothing unnatural about her movement at all, and she reaches higher.. I didn't catch the picture at exactly the right moment. Anyway, I didn't make her do this, nor did anyone else. She loves to show off. Its in her blood.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...c/IMG_3451.jpg


If you could make a horse (in this industry, anyway) do something they weren't bred to do, or talented enough to do naturally.. EVERYONE would have a world champion park horse. It just doesn't happen that way. (Idk if you know the divisions, but Park is the most extreme of the motion) Park classes at Morgan shows are generally small (under 5 horses per class, usually). At the 2007 New England Morgan Regional (some consider it more competitive than nationals) there were only 2 stallions in the Park Stallions class. (2 Well known stallions, it was a great class to watch) Please tell me, if you could make a horse pick his feet up so high, or if so many people force the horse to do unnatural motion, why the class wasn't filled and split with 20 something horses?


Because it takes an extremely talented horses and there few actually talented enough to make it to that level. I find your "points" insulting, that horses who were bred and conditioned to trot high "cannot be healthy".. I don't find it extreme or ugly, I see horses who love what they are doing.

Let me end on this note. There is a mare my trainer trained and her friend/boarder bred. She is by a well known stallion out of a very talented mare. She's 8 now, and still doesn't know what she wants to do. She rides and drives but none of the disciplines truly make her happy. I used to ride her in lessons, and she taught me a lot. She would take to a discipline (say western, or driving, or saddleseat, or hunters, jumpers, anything she wanted.. she could be someone's trail horse for all we cared.. we just wanted to find her talent and what she liked) for about a week.. Then one day you'd get on her, and she would be completely uninterested in it. She has enough talent (for saddleseat) to be a world champion, in all honesty. If you saw this mare in person on a good day, you wouldn't have a doubt in your mind it was all natural. She was shown in-hand as baby but that was it. Once you got the ball rolling on conditioning her (say for saddleseat), you'd get on one day, and she wouldn't move above a snail's pace, collect, or pick her feet up.

Honestly, if I could have made a world champion park horse out of her, I would buy her (she's for sale and cheap!), she's the perfect size for me. But I can't make her pick her legs up, that's all on her and whether she wants to or not. If I could make her, I could buy her and probably make an upwards of $20,000 or more for her.. just because she is so cheap now and would be worth so much if she weren't so unpredictable.
     
    12-14-2008, 11:00 PM
  #39
Weanling
I couldn't fit the rest, so its here:
My horses are happy and healthy. My filly is particularly spoiled, I'm training her myself and she's more well mannered and in better condition then most H/J lesson horses. I would love to take her saddleseat, and once she gains more balance under saddle I will start conditioning her for it. For you to say that she "cannot be healthy" simply because her sport is to show off, is extremely insulting to me. I love her very much, she is very well cared for. UTD on everything. Both of my horses are well cared for, their health is my number one priority. Just because you aren't well educated on a discipline doesn't give you the right to make assumptions, like the horses who compete in it aren't healthy.

If you've ever walked through the tents at the Morgan shows, you'll see some of the happiest and healthiest horses. I probably see one mean/unfriendly horse for every 50 stalls I pass. The rest come up to the stall, lick your hand, ears pricked forward. If you go into the barn where I board, when you walk down the aisle, every single horse (except the shetland nellie, who is 39, and antisocial) will come up and greet you. I've been in many a barn where the majority of the horses are unhappy, weave, crib, bite, etc. and in all honesty, all those barns were H/J barns.

I've had nothing but a positive experience with Morgans and saddleseat, while my experience in most of the H/J barns I've been in has been less than great (unhappy horses, negative trainers, etc.) But I would never bash another sport based on those bad experiences. I may say something like "Based on my not-so-great experience"... but I wouldn't be rash and say "H/J Horses can't possibly be healthy, whats healthy about running in circles and jumping every day of your life.." and I've also met more H/J horses and lesson horses with leg and joint injuries than I've met saddleseat horses with leg and joint injuries. It's all personal experience though.
     
    12-14-2008, 11:05 PM
  #40
Weanling
I just saw your leather straps, which are cute. I would hate to ruin the thought for you, since you seem so against saddleseat, but we use similar ones without any decoration. They are just a piece of leather, similar to the chains but lighter.

And Vida, I was a little offended but your good. I just can't seem to find a forum where whenever saddleseat is mentioned there aren't scores of people saying how terrible a sport it is, and how everyone who does it sores their horses and bla bla bla. Yet most of these people have never even seen a saddle horse up close and personal and are just mimicking what they've heard or read. The ironic thing is, I would never go out and bash another discipline, even though I have my qualms with several aspects of some disciplines... and these are disciplines I've actually ridden and shown. :P Some people. Lol I just got a little defensive, I'm sorry if you were taken aback.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rain chains for your barn??? travlingypsy Horse Talk 9 10-11-2008 06:09 PM
Using chains on rearing horse kitten_Val Horse Training 1 05-12-2008 04:16 PM
Chains... free_sprtd Horse Training 30 02-28-2008 06:39 PM
Stud Chains horse_luver4e Horse Training 54 07-29-2007 05:25 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0