Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :) - Page 5
   

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Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :)

This is a discussion on Chains around frontlegs? What for? How? :) within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Shoes with chains around the legs
  • Strengthen chain around pastern

 
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    12-14-2008, 10:23 PM
  #41
Zab
Yearling
Thank you for a calm answer in a good tone. :)

It's 4 am and I admit that I didn't read your long post too carefully right now, just skipped through. I'll read it better later.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing now, and it is most probably my fault since I'm not familiar with all names and words.
This is what I'm referring to as extreme and ugly: I have probably mixed up the names, what's that show called?
When nobody can find a horse that moves like that, without putting those weird boots on them, I feel like something is wrong.

I have no idea what a walk trotter is, and I referred to normal dressage when I talked about rollkur, more to say I'm not just being 'afraid' of the dicipline because I don't know it.

It's my firm belief that you can teach horses to do very unatural things that's not very good for their physical bodies, but even if I'm sceptic to those high legs on the photos I'm not prepared to blame it on cruel training. :) Maybe it is genetic.

And I still dislike pretty much all ''show off'' diciplines, much thanks to what I've learnt from dressge - which is said to be ''for the horse'' to strengthen then. I don't like what that has become thanks to the competition and hunt for ribbons, even tho it can still be done in a good way and still serve the original purpose to strenthen the horse. What I've seen of ther show off diciplines, they're not much better when it comes to the show ring.

I don't mean to insult you and again; thank you for a civilized answer to my post :) I know I wasn't at the most diplomatic mood when I wrote it.
And I think most of it is confusing because I have messed up the names of things.
     
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    12-14-2008, 10:28 PM
  #42
Zab
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by drop_your_reins    
I just saw your leather straps, which are cute. I would hate to ruin the thought for you, since you seem so against saddleseat, but we use similar ones without any decoration. They are just a piece of leather, similar to the chains but lighter.
How do you use them and why? What effect do they give? :)
     
    12-14-2008, 10:32 PM
  #43
Showing
Zab, I think those would look great on Crow. Are they thin enough to go on the pastern or will you have to put them above the ankle?
     
    12-14-2008, 10:39 PM
  #44
Zab
Yearling
The ''gaited world'' is in most cases very, very new to me. The only gaited horse that's somewhat common here are icelandics, and I can't say I know too much about their shows either, even tho I've ridden them quite a lot.

And the only recognized gaits here are tölt (all kinds of rack, practically) and pace.

So now when I come in contact with both all new names of different gaits, and diffrent ways of showing, I get confused. I'm curious and want to learn more, but the kind of riding I see in the vid I just linked, just makes my stomach turn at first sight. And much of it is not because it's strange t me, but because it can't be achieved without these large front shoes and I know how horselegs work.

I searched for saddleseat on youtube, and that looked much more normal. I'm sure it has it's backsides, as all diciplines, but it doesn't make me feel at all as bad as the other thing.
     
    12-14-2008, 10:40 PM
  #45
Zab
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Zab, I think those would look great on Crow. Are they thin enough to go on the pastern or will you have to put them above the ankle?
I think they're thin enough, but I'm not sure if I'll put them on the ankle anyway, where they'll be more visible ;)
I'll have to see how it looks on him before I try.
     
    12-14-2008, 10:41 PM
  #46
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab    
I have probably mixed up the names, what's that show called?
When nobody can find a horse that moves like that, without putting those weird boots on them, I feel like something is wrong.
The following is what they look like before the chains, shoes and other things done to them.

The whole thing in showing TWH is the "big lick" which is what that horse in your video is doing.

This is what they looked like before and there ARE classes for the Lite shod horses.

     
    12-14-2008, 10:49 PM
  #47
Showing
That looks much better, although lots of the LITE shod horses are also shod with the extremely long toe and underslung heal. :(
     
    12-14-2008, 10:57 PM
  #48
Zab
Yearling
Except the weird head nodding, that looks normal and not at all as the ''big lick'' .. :/
I guess the head nod is fairly natural and I can't find any reason to immediatly dislike what you're showing, but when it comes to that awful walk with the shoes it's way too much....

Why is it called ''big lick''?
     
    12-14-2008, 11:08 PM
  #49
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab    
Why is it called ''big lick''?
Not sure why it is called the big lick but read on...

History of the "Big Lick"

During the late 1940s and early 1950s, when Walking Horses enjoyed a surge of widespread popularity with the general public, exaggerated front leg action, especially at the running walk, drew spectators to horse shows and helped further increase the popularity of the breed. This action was also rewarded by judges. Thus began the rage for "big lick" movement. While "lite shod" horses with naturally good movement could comfortably perform this crowd-pleasing gait at the time, it took both natural ability and considerable time to properly train and condition the horse.
Some individuals, wishing to produce similar movement in less-talented horses or in less time, borrowed practices used by other breeds to enhance movement. This included action devices such as weighted shoes, "Stacks" (stacked pads), and the use of weighted chains around the pasterns, all of which, within certain limits, were allowed.
As these methods produced horses that won in the show ring, and as ever-higher and more dramatic action was rewarded by the judges, some trainers turned to less savory methods to produce high action in a hurry. These methods including excessively heavy weighted chains, use of tacks deliberately placed under the shoe into the "white line" or quick, of the hoof, and the controversial practice of "soring," the application of a caustic chemical agent to the front legs to make it painful for the horse to put its feet down.

Action Devices


There are two common action devices that are permitted on the show grounds, and are used for training and show to enhance the horse's gait.
  • Chains: bracelet-like chains are attached around the front pasterns of the horse, and may be no more than 6 ounces in weight. They are intended to be used with a lubricant to allow them to slide easily along the pastern.
  • "Pads": Added under a horse's natural hoof, pads (sometimes called "stacks" or "packages") can vary in height. They are usually made of plastic, although originally were made of leather. Pads have a metal band that runs across the hoof wall to help keep them on the horse's foot. Pads may be up to 4" thick in the heel and no more than 2" in the toe. Thickness and the use of the band determine what class a horse can be shown in. Pads are an extension built off of a base shoe, and therefore are easily taken off or changed without having to completely reshoe the horse.
Users of chains do not believe they cause the horse pain, stating that it creates a similar feeling as a loose bracelet would around the wrist of a person. However, some trainers and veterinarians believe that above a certain weight, they may be harmful. The well-known "Auburn Study," conducted from September 1978 to December of 1982 at Auburn University, examined the "Thermography in diagnosis of inflammatory processes in horses in response to various chemical and physical factors." Using thermography, the researchers found that chains "altered thermal patterns as early as day 2 of exercise with chains. These altered thermal patterns persisted as long as chains were used," with normal thermal patterns seen after 20 days recovery. A stallion in the study also developed lesions from his 8 ounce chains, after wearing them in nine 15-minute exercise periods (scattered from September 22 to October 3). The Auburn study also showed that 2,4, and 6 ounce chains produced no adverse effects in the horses being studied. A 6 ounce chain is the legal weight of chain allowed in NHSC horse shows.
Pads are also controversial. Some are also critical of the band that holds the pad on, which they believe cuts into the hoof and may wear a slot into it. However, it is a common practice for a trainer to loosen the band when the horse is not being exercised, which may minimize the problem. Under normal conditions, if a pad is lost, it usually only affects the pad itself and not the base shoe which remains intact. Injuries are usually very limited from "throwing" a set of pads. It is dangerous if a horse wearing pads pulls off a shoe, as not only will the pad will come off, but the band may tear off part of the hoof wall. Therefore, horses wearing pads should not be turned out.

Soring


Soring is an abusive practice that is associated in part with the production of a "big lick" Walker. It involves using chemical agents such as mustard oil, diesel fuel, kerosene, salicylic acid, and others, on the pasterns, bulbs of heel, or coronary band of the horses, burning or blistering the horse's legs so that it will accentuate its gait. These chemicals are harmful, usually quite toxic and sometimes carcinogenic, and trainers must use a brush and wear gloves when applying them. The area may then be wrapped in plastic while the chemicals are absorbed. The chemical agents cause extreme pain, and usually lead to scarring. A distinctive scarring pattern is a tell-tale signs of soring, and therefore may be covered up by a dye, or the horse's legs may be treated with salicylic acid before the animal is stalled (as many can not stand up after the treatment) while the skin of the scars slough off. Other signs that a horse has been sored include:
  • The horse stands with its feet close together, shifting his weight to his hind legs
  • Granulation or scars on the pasterns or coronet
  • Wavy hair growth or hair loss in the pastern area
  • Pastern has darker hairs than the rest of the horse's coat
  • Hocks are carried low and may twist outward when moving
  • Horse lies down for extended periods of time, and is resistant to standing up
  • Horse resists handling of feet
  • Horse has difficulty walking, and may fall
Tennessee walking horse: Definition from Answers.com
     
    12-14-2008, 11:10 PM
  #50
Showing
No offence but in my opinion that device is just as bad people using draw reins when riding. I just finished reading a book on 2 different methods of teaching dressage to horses and basic flat work and I have a brand new perspective on the most "basic" training gear or devices used to force a horse to move a certain way.
I suggest anyone who rides to read it. You will find very informative and will certainly change your view on what you might have thought were basic training methods and gear.

I do feel sorry for the animals.
     

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