09-21-2009, 07:36 PM
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#1 | Yearling
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden - the land of carrots and apples
Posts: 1,318
|  Good frame on gaited horse?
It might seem a silly question, but what do you concider a good frame when gaiting?
With a good frame, I mean the posture of the horse, to keep it sound and strong and carry right.
In (academic) dressage this posture is weight on the hindlegs, a rounded neck with a long topline on both neck and back, and abdominal (spelling?) muscles, a relaxed throat and the head ''hanging'' relaxed at the poll, being on or a tad in front of, the vertical.
Somewhat like this image (chosen because I have the copyright on it and it's somewhat right, rather than just tking a random image on google :P The lifted hindleg is a bit wrong tho.)  This is to keep the back strong, spare the front legs as they can't be trained to carry the extra weight as the hindlegs can, thanks to their angles and muscles, and in all get a supple, balanced and relaxed horse that's prepared and ready to do whatever move you ask, be it making a halt and then back, suddenly turn in a pirouette or speed up in a extended trot. This frame is the ''right'' frame no matter what gait you use (of the ''normal'' gaits walk, trot and canter).
I would think that the same should go for gaited horses, don't we want strong, carrying and balanced horses also in rack/foxtrot/running walk or whatever gait we use? But I don't often see just that frame in these gaits and it doesn't seem like anyone is aiming for it either :)
So how does a good and realistic frame look, when gaiting? What do you say? Why this, and why that? :) If it's different than a good frame in trot or canter, why is it and can it be changed? Why should it, or why shouldn't it?
Any pictures, photos or paintings, are appreciated when you show me what you say is a good frame while gaiting :) If you take them from google, make sure to link to the page you got it from, please.
I'm just curious of what you think.
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09-21-2009, 08:02 PM
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#2 | Green Broke
Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brokenheartsville, just north of Styxtown :)
Posts: 2,577
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tn.jpg
^ This as opposed to nose.jpg
^ this. ( http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Horse/...hp_198x176.jpg )
I can't stand the dangum nose-in-the-air-hollowed-out-back look.
Then it isn't true collection. It's just evading the bit.
IMO, the whole padded weights cause the horse's front end to rise up unbalanced. Not good. | |
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09-21-2009, 08:03 PM
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#3 | Weanling
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Indiana
Posts: 329
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Zab, that's a good question. I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, and I could be wrong on this, but...
I have a Tennessee Walker. As you know, they do a running walk. I think that the main part of the "locomotion" of this gait is generated in the shoulders/chest. My horse, for example, has a pretty weak hind end (REALLY weak when compared with my quarter horse). Sloped butt and all that. However, she has a really big, deep, but also narrow, chest. Now, she's not conformationally a great walker, but I think this tends to be pretty standard for the most part when it comes to this particular breed. To make her back end work really hard, when her front is the much stronger part, just doesn't make much sense. Building up a stronger butt would probably be beneficial, but she'll never be built like a non-gaited. Does that make sense?
I see your point, however. And I have heard of walkers doing dressage, just not sure how common it is. | |
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09-21-2009, 08:11 PM
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#4 | Yearling
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden - the land of carrots and apples
Posts: 1,318
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Sunny; thanks for pictures :)
Lori1983: But does the butt have to be like a QH butt to help the horse balance and collect better? I mean.. why not work towards that, even if it won't be like a non-gaited? If you think it's beneficial, just.. why not work towards it instead of building up the front to be even stronger and the butt weaker? :) | |
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09-21-2009, 08:20 PM
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#5 | Green Broke
Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brokenheartsville, just north of Styxtown :)
Posts: 2,577
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Backing a horse up a hill is said to create good butt-muscles. | |
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09-21-2009, 08:23 PM
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#6 | Yearling
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden - the land of carrots and apples
Posts: 1,318
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Lori: Look at Crow. Altho he isn't as weak-butted as many of the TWH I've seen, when I bought him his hind was quite weak. You see it best on the 2007 June picture. I've worked to get it more even..and I think I've managed somehow..
I'm not an expert rider tho and I don't know if it really helps his gait.
But I've noticed that gaited horses tend to have small butts.. at least what I've seen here and on icys.. which is strange concidering how far beneth themselves they're reaching, usually, in the rack, and how they should carry weight back when their fronts seem lifted..  
But still.. what do you think is a good frame for a gaited horse, butt or not? Show a picture or describe it :) | |
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09-21-2009, 08:26 PM
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#7 | Weanling
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Indiana
Posts: 329
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LoL, with that logic, should we then be trying to strive for gaited quarters, since it is a more comfortable gait? ;)
As I said above, I can certainly see the benefits in building up the hind muscles...however, ultimately a walker should have endurance and a smooth gait. That's what they're bred (and built) for.
Compare a sprinter to a marathon runner; they have very different builds, and they train differently. And for good reason. That's all I was saying. :)
I just don't think it's a fair comparison in all aspects.
And for the record, I'm not a fan of the performance gaited horse world. (However...my horse Annie has never been trained for performance gaiting, and she still has a naturally higher head carriage than a lot of other breeds). | |
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09-21-2009, 08:26 PM
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#8 | Yearling
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden - the land of carrots and apples
Posts: 1,318
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Sunny; more than the head posture in your pictures, what do you say differ the good fom the bad?
And do you have a non-padded bad-picture? | |
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09-21-2009, 08:28 PM
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#9 | Green Broke
Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brokenheartsville, just north of Styxtown :)
Posts: 2,577
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I'm sure I can find one. | |
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09-21-2009, 08:30 PM
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#10 | Yearling
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden - the land of carrots and apples
Posts: 1,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lori1983  LoL, with that logic, should we then be trying to strive for gaited quarters, since it is a more comfortable gait? ;)
As I said above, I can certainly see the benefits in building up the hind muscles...however, ultimately a walker should have endurance and a smooth gait. That's what they're bred (and built) for.
Compare a sprinter to a marathon runner; they have very different builds, and they train differently. And for good reason. That's all I was saying. :)
I just don't think it's a fair comparison in all aspects.
And for the record, I'm not a fan of the performance gaited horse world. (However...my horse Annie has never been trained for performance gaiting, and she still has a naturally higher head carriage than a lot of other breeds). | I'm not really asking to compare a traditional frame to a gaited frame. I'm askling what is a good gaited frame?
And when that's settled and explained I wonder, why is it, if all, different from the traditiobnal good frame? But I don't want to hear that untill I know what you concider a good gaited frame, or else it'll be to compare an apple with an unknown fruit :P | |
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