Good frame on gaited horse? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 10:32 PM
Green Broke
 
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Bad nose shoveled out evading bit:

badddddd.jpg

Good nose tucked in a true collection, soft and giving:

(paint I showed earlier)

The difference? Collection. True enlightening of the front end creates the best gait.

Most people are like Slinkies; they serve no real purpose, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on for dear life.
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post #12 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 10:34 PM
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Ha ha, ok...I see what you're saying now. (To Zab)

Last edited by Lori1983; 09-21-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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post #13 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 10:36 PM
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Good example, Sunny! And actually, from all I have read and heard, a walker should never have the rider "in its mouth" that much, because it actually restricts the smooth gait and prevents that characteristic head-bobbing that is natural. LoL, now we're getting somewhere.
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
Zab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny06 View Post
Bad nose shoveled out evading bit:

**

Good nose tucked in a true collection, soft and giving:

(paint I showed earlier)

The difference? Collection. True enlightening of the front end creates the best gait.
Hm..I see what you mean.. but I can't really see the paint step in under him/herself, and the underside of the neck is still stiff, to me it looks more like she has learnt to yield to the bit, but by breaking off in the neck and at the withers, rather than actually lifting the front and the back and get the butt under him/herself. Especially compared to how high the head frame is (had the frame been lower and more relaxed, I'd accept it as a good, honest frame and start on collection.. now I see more of a uncollected horse with a high head and shortened neck, but not following up in the rest of the body.) altho relaxed in the poll and yielding to the bit.
How come gaited horses seem to have such problems to get a lower headset that matches their bodies grade of collection?
Crow has the same thing, high headset compared to how little he actually collects. Even in walk and trot.

Is the usual criterea for a good frame the same for a gaited horse in gait, or is it by some reason different?


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #15 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 10:52 PM
Green Broke
 
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Quote:
How come gaited horses seem to have such problems to get a lower headset that matches their bodies grade of collection?
You got me there. I'm guessing it's because of their flightier temperments or body build. Some's necks are just placed funny.

Quote:
Is the usual criterea for a good frame the same for a gaited horse in gait, or is it by some reason different?
Well, it does seem that the two have been seperated, but true collection is true collection. Neither should be segregated.

Most people are like Slinkies; they serve no real purpose, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on for dear life.
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post #16 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
Zab
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I'll use Crow as an example again, just so you won't think I'm just bashing your horses :P



Except that his gait really suck and my balance act is even worse, let's look t the frame. Trhrough my traditional eyes I'm really happy that his nose is actually on the vertical and that his neck is lowered (compared to his usual headset). I'm also happy that his back isn't all hollowed out.
And that's where thatnends.. his neck is way too shrt and he is in fact bracing the bit; the underside of the neck is tensed. His hindlegs is strutting behind him, altho his frontlegs isn't under him and taking extra weight either, so at least he's not falling forward, he's just not activating his butt to take the extra weight that is me, off the front. Not collection in any way and not even a very good basic frame thanks to the tensed, short, bracing neck (which automatcally transfer tensions to the back). I'd prefer a more forward nose with a lengthened neck before this, actually..but oh well :)

At least the frame is, according to me, better than the ofreistur I often see at icys.
http://www.ifokus.se/ShowUserFile.as...5-58b51d35c55d (from iFokus - gratis mötesplats för forum, bloggar och fotoalbum ) even tho they seem to step under themselves better and lift in the front, the back and entire frame is just very tensed and bracing against the rider.


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.



Last edited by Zab; 09-21-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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post #17 of 21 Old 09-21-2009, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
Zab
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Here is a picture of him that feels better: he's on the forehand and not collected, but he's yielding to the bit without bracing against it as far as I can see and he's relaxed throughout the body.
The ait is a little better I think, but still not a very good gait.

His rider looks like the candy store just threw her out tho :P



Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #18 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 10:56 AM
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Ha ha, yeah. I guess it just depends on the horse. If I let Sunny have his whole head he will break up but if I have contact with his mouth (even hardly anything at all) he will gait fine O.o

Most people are like Slinkies; they serve no real purpose, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on for dear life.
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post #19 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
Zab
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Contact or no contact isn't exactly what I'm talking about.. :3 But just the frame, not the cues or aids,
(To get Crow further down I really have to work and genly switch between contact and easing contact to make him seek the bit)

What I am talking about is when the neck is high and arched but the rest of the body doesn't follow the same level of collection. So that the horse ''breaks'' in the middle so to say.. and the headset is just a tucked in nose and very short, tensed neck instead of a long relaxed topline.. it's not more true collection to me than the heavy-contact-bracing-the-bit-with-nose-in-air horses..

I think I'll try to make a picture to show the cionnection I see between the neck, back and stomach.. just as much to make it clear for you as for myself what I mean and how I think about frame vs collection...
I don't think that collection, especially extreme collection, is as necessary as a good basic frame... Since a good basic frame will let the horse work flexible and supple without tensions even tho it's not collected (=carrying the weight on the hind), but a horse in a forced collection that does step in under himself still won't be very flexible and loose in the body, and the tensions causes more and quicker problems physically than to have the weight a bit off (as long as it's resonable, I mean. And not to mention the horses mind and how rthat's affected by a forced ''collection'' or frame..)


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #20 of 21 Old 09-22-2009, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
Zab
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Ok..this is pretty long..and let me know if it doesn't make any sense at all..O__o

This is what I concider true collection for non-gaited horses.

Is there any reason for gaited horses to not aim for the same frame?
(As I said in the .gif, I'm not necessarily aiming for the extreme collection, but for that type of collection that comes from an engaged stomach and hindquarter, with a raised back, and not from the head being pulled up (by horse or rider doesn't matter in this case). With ''my'' collection, less activity behind takes a lower neck to keep the spine strong.



Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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