Long toe/short toe/trotty/pacey - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-01-2014, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by disastercupcake View Post
I had a gaited farrier work on my boy for a long time, told me a lot about the angles and breakover time, balancing the hooves and leaving length or takfing toe...

Then he suddenly got hurt and had to retire. Now I just use the local standardbred farrier- lots of racing around here- and you would never know the difference.

Just trim to your horse's leg, and allow his natural gaits to come out :)
Application of the KISS Principle. I love it!!! :)

There's a lot of just, plain "balderdash" in circles proclaiming "gaited horse expertise." It is true that for every problem there is a solution that is simple, cheap, and wrong. It is also true that "experts" in any field profit from complexity so complexity proliferates. That means the equine husbandryman must be on constant guard for both types of "charlatans."

G.
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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that type of reasoning kinda reminds me of an old walking horse buddy of mine. He use to do some shoeing on the side up to about 20 yrs ago.

He says all you gotta do is let the toe grow out and keep the bottoms flat.

Not only do I not buy into that type of mentality but I've ridden enough to know the difference.

You might be able to get some horses that will ride any old way they are trimmed and shod, but when you get a horse that needs "science" applied.............its hard to beat a man at his own trade.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 03:08 AM
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In many (not all) instances the longer to goes along with added weight via artificial aids when one states a boxed statement like "lengthen the toe" and etc. Many times the toe is left long but so isnt the heel in conjunction and you get a stilted effect. This increases animation also. Long toes and flat heels can create paceiness. I simply try to stay with the natural angle simlar to the angle of the shoulder giving or taking some as needed. I mkight square off a toe in the back to increase break over depending on the situation.

To long of toes can hinder break over time and create a more pacey effect.

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham

Last edited by ZaneyZanne123; 01-02-2014 at 03:12 AM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ZaneyZanne123 View Post
In many (not all) instances the longer to goes along with added weight via artificial aids when one states a boxed statement like "lengthen the toe" and etc. Many times the toe is left long but so isnt the heel in conjunction and you get a stilted effect. This increases animation also. Long toes and flat heels can create paceiness. I simply try to stay with the natural angle simlar to the angle of the shoulder giving or taking some as needed. I mkight square off a toe in the back to increase break over depending on the situation.

To long of toes can hinder break over time and create a more pacey effect.
Trimming to anatomical correctness should always be the starting point. Unless you are altering gait (for the show ring or the like) it's also going to be the end point.

Most Walkers are bred to be pacy because most Walkers today descend from show stock that was bred to pace (and then be "squared up" by devices, soring, etc.). There are lines that have avoided these evils, but you'll have to "look under rocks" to find them. Anytime you see a claim of WGC breeding you'll be looking at a pacy animal (in all probability).

Again, the assertion of hard numbers for desired angles might be right, but is at least equally probable to be wrong Anatomical correctness in angles will be right in the vast majority of cases.

G.
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-02-2014, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, so possibly I'm on the right track of trimming her towards anatomically correct. For the past 18 months, up until October, she had been trimmed with long toes with acceptable angles. However, I've taken over the trimming and needless to say that I've found the true apex of the frogs and am quite shocked . The hooves looked fine until the frog apex was where it should be. I will be spending a lot of time getting those toes back where they should be.
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-04-2014, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
Trimming to anatomical correctness should always be the starting point. Unless you are altering gait (for the show ring or the like) it's also going to be the end point.

Most Walkers are bred to be pacy because most Walkers today descend from show stock that was bred to pace (and then be "squared up" by devices, soring, etc.). There are lines that have avoided these evils, but you'll have to "look under rocks" to find them. Anytime you see a claim of WGC breeding you'll be looking at a pacy animal (in all probability).

Again, the assertion of hard numbers for desired angles might be right, but is at least equally probable to be wrong Anatomical correctness in angles will be right in the vast majority of cases.

G.
I was talking about when altering. I was adding to the point that "long in the front and short in the rear" is often associated with weight, length (toe and heel....what I call propping up the foot like in Saddlebreds for example.) and etc. esp when talking to a show person or a trainer that also may show thier animals. Yes, you should always trim for anatomical correctness.

"The question is not, can they reason? nor, can they talk? but, can they suffer?" Jeremy Bentham
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-04-2014, 12:08 PM
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id say getting the pace outa a horse is "altering"

Hence the need to use angles and degrees. One must have a starting point. And true gaited farriers are the best at knowing where to start.

Anatomically correct is all fine and good. But its not the correct answer every time. And this is not in referrence to the show ring.
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post #18 of 19 Old 01-04-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity Ridge View Post
id say getting the pace outa a horse is "altering"

Hence the need to use angles and degrees. One must have a starting point. And true gaited farriers are the best at knowing where to start.

Anatomically correct is all fine and good. But its not the correct answer every time. And this is not in referrence to the show ring.
You don't need a farrier to get a horse out of a "pace." You need nothing beyond a skilled rider, correct tack, and patience.

G.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-05-2014, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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I do believe in a baseline. I do see that sometimes with gaits we do have to do a bit of nip and tuck. I've felt it on my own. I do believe in what you say, too , Guilherme. But I do pay attention to how far I can push her and how long she'll stay in a 4 beat gait. If it's effortless, I know things are good-including the feet.
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