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NO gaited bit/gaited saddle

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  • A floating spade bit for gaited horses
  • Freedom gaited bit

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    01-15-2014, 12:03 PM
  #11
Showing
Yes, gaited saddles are different because many gaited horses do have the need of more shoulder freedom. If they didn't then there wouldn't be any such thing as a gaited saddle.

However, not all gaited horses need gaited saddles, it all depends on their individual conformation.

As for the bit thing, I personally believe that the whole "gaited bit" thing is nothing but a load of hooey. A bit is a bit is a bit. The different types (snaffle, curb, spade, etc) should be separated by the training level of the horse, not the breed.

There are a lot of things that I don't understand about the gaited world and their choice of bits is one of them. I have heard this from a gaited horse person and it completely flabbergasted me. They said that this bit was a nice "starter" bit for a young/green horse.



In my world, you'd get shunned for using that type of bit on any horse, let alone a young/green one.

What really bothers me is that if you google "walking horse bit", you come up with a bunch of pictures that look almost like medieval torture devices. Their explanation is that "it helps them gait better", but I call BS on that too. How in the world would having a double twisted wire or chain mouth bit with 10 inch shanks help a horse gait better?


LOL, anyway, that's my rant for the day.
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    01-15-2014, 01:03 PM
  #12
Yearling
"Yes, gaited saddles are different because many gaited horses do have the need of more shoulder freedom. If they didn't then there wouldn't be any such thing as a gaited saddle."

Well, not really.

The idea that a gaited horse moving in a straight line needs more shoulder room than a working cow or cutting horse or an eventing horse doing four foot jumps does not compute for me. Any horse engaging in an athletic discipline and doing lateral movements or jumping needs adequate shoulder room. IMO there is no evidence that the gaited horse needs more than the working cow horse or the sport horse.

I fully agree with you on bits. The "bitting culture" within the gaited horse community in many places is almost medieval in the extreme power considered routine. It is absolutely true that the power of any bit lies primarily in the hands of the rider. It is also absolutely true that you can do much more damage with a lever than without one. Combining the long shank with the thin, wire mouthpiece is something I'd not wish upon on Death's Pale Horse.

Much of the "gaited horse world" is very insular in its practices. It recoils at the idea that what granddaddy did was not only cruel but often ineffective. This is independent of the very specific questions that arise in a specific breed (such as the discussions of the Big Lick practices).

My mare is centered to slightly diagonal in gait. Our stallion is very diagonal in gait. Our senior brood mare (who we put down at 31 years of age this last fall) was quite lateral. I have two saddles that work well with my current mare (a Stubben Scout and an M1902 British Yeomanry saddle). I've used the Stubben on all of our horses currently under saddle. Both were designed for a "sport horse conformation." Both work quite well with my Marchadors no matter the gait style. We participate in the National Cavalry Competition, foxhunt, trail ride, and do some mounted shooting on them. No "shoulder movement issues" have ever arisen.

I remain convinced that the "gaited horse saddle" is a "marketing effort" not an "operational type." Until I see evidence to the contrary I'll likely continue in my belief.

G.
     
    01-15-2014, 05:48 PM
  #13
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Yes, gaited saddles are different because many gaited horses do have the need of more shoulder freedom. If they didn't then there wouldn't be any such thing as a gaited saddle.

However, not all gaited horses need gaited saddles, it all depends on their individual conformation.

As for the bit thing, I personally believe that the whole "gaited bit" thing is nothing but a load of hooey. A bit is a bit is a bit. The different types (snaffle, curb, spade, etc) should be separated by the training level of the horse, not the breed.

There are a lot of things that I don't understand about the gaited world and their choice of bits is one of them. I have heard this from a gaited horse person and it completely flabbergasted me. They said that this bit was a nice "starter" bit for a young/green horse.



In my world, you'd get shunned for using that type of bit on any horse, let alone a young/green one.

What really bothers me is that if you google "walking horse bit", you come up with a bunch of pictures that look almost like medieval torture devices. Their explanation is that "it helps them gait better", but I call BS on that too. How in the world would having a double twisted wire or chain mouth bit with 10 inch shanks help a horse gait better?


LOL, anyway, that's my rant for the day.

Well its like this. The shanks is for the comfort of the rider. If you are racking right along for a mile or two, or off and on all day. Its much easier for you the rider to only use a pound or two of pressure on the bit to keep them going at the desired speed and gait. W/o the shanks you have to use alot more pressure to get the same effect on the end of the bit.
Whats easier on you and your arms. Over a distance or a period of time. If you are plodding along on a dead head at 2-3 mph and you never need nothing but a loose rein than it wouldnt matter, but with gaited and espl. Speed gaited horses you will appreciate the "leverage" and the comfort it brings to use them.

Just cause they are long shanks don't mean you are trying to pull their head off. As for the twisted wire. I know nothing of these bits, I've never used them. I have heard what you were told, but I have no experience with breaking a green horse either. So I have no comment either way. But just b/c something looks bad doesnt mean it always is.
     
    01-15-2014, 06:40 PM
  #14
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity Ridge    
well its like this. The shanks is for the comfort of the rider. If you are racking right along for a mile or two, or off and on all day. Its much easier for you the rider to only use a pound or two of pressure on the bit to keep them going at the desired speed and gait. W/o the shanks you have to use alot more pressure to get the same effect on the end of the bit.
Whats easier on you and your arms. Over a distance or a period of time. If you are plodding along on a dead head at 2-3 mph and you never need nothing but a loose rein than it wouldnt matter, but with gaited and espl. Speed gaited horses you will appreciate the "leverage" and the comfort it brings to use them.

Just cause they are long shanks don't mean you are trying to pull their head off. As for the twisted wire. I know nothing of these bits, I've never used them. I have heard what you were told, but I have no experience with breaking a green horse either. So I have no comment either way. But just b/c something looks bad doesnt mean it always is.
The horse should be light to cues, you shouldn't need to have a long shank so your arms don't get tired. If you have a horse like that you need to go back to basics and work on them responding to the bit.
     
    01-15-2014, 07:02 PM
  #15
Yearling
I notice that some western saddles flare in the front and some don't. Seems more barrel saddles have flare in front. I've found that some gaited saddles put a rider in a chair seat.
     
    01-15-2014, 08:49 PM
  #16
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SullysRider    
The horse should be light to cues, you shouldn't need to have a long shank so your arms don't get tired. If you have a horse like that you need to go back to basics and work on them responding to the bit.
Ayup.

G.
     
    01-15-2014, 09:52 PM
  #17
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by SullysRider    
The horse should be light to cues, you shouldn't need to have a long shank so your arms don't get tired. If you have a horse like that you need to go back to basics and work on them responding to the bit.
This is my thinking as well. I take the time to train my horses well enough that I don't need pressure on the reins at any gait. I can plod along at a walk, hit a long trot, keep a nice balanced lope, or maintain a gallop, regardless of whether I'm riding with others or not.

But, again, that goes back to training vs forcing. IMHO, if you need to have more than just a few ounces of pressure on a curb bit, then there's something missing in the horse's training.
     
    01-16-2014, 03:30 AM
  #18
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy    
The shoulder movement thing is baloney. You can't tell me that jumpers don't need to use their shoulders fully, and jumping saddles sit far forward.
Actually in some gaited breeds the shoulder movement is different. It's not just back and forth like with a jumper. It's also "rotational" - for lack of a better word. To illustrate, move your arm back to front holding the elbow straight, then move it back to front like you would if you were swimming. Notice the rotation of the shoulder joint? Some breeds have that rotational motion in the front legs; it's most markedly seen in the Peruvian Horse (it's called termino). They need a saddle that frees up the shoulder area and allows that rotation.
     
    01-16-2014, 10:17 AM
  #19
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlntperuvian    
Actually in some gaited breeds the shoulder movement is different. It's not just back and forth like with a jumper. It's also "rotational" - for lack of a better word. To illustrate, move your arm back to front holding the elbow straight, then move it back to front like you would if you were swimming. Notice the rotation of the shoulder joint? Some breeds have that rotational motion in the front legs; it's most markedly seen in the Peruvian Horse (it's called termino). They need a saddle that frees up the shoulder area and allows that rotation.
I understand the differences in shoulder motion; I just reviewed some video of "termino" including some slow motion shots. Also some videos of horses moving laterally. I don't see "termino" as requiring anything substantially different from any other horse performing athletic movements, particularly the lateral movements.

Again, I see the "gaited saddle" as a marketing idea, not an operational type.

G.
     
    01-16-2014, 12:44 PM
  #20
Yearling
And it looks like many gaited saddles actually put your seat too far back or chair seat.
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