NO gaited bit/gaited saddle - Page 3
   

       The Horse Forum > Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics > Horse Breeds > Gaited Horses

NO gaited bit/gaited saddle

This is a discussion on NO gaited bit/gaited saddle within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Action jackson racking horse
  • Action jackson soeed racking horae

Like Tree17Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    01-16-2014, 07:02 PM
  #21
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity Ridge    
well its like this. The shanks is for the comfort of the rider. If you are racking right along for a mile or two, or off and on all day. Its much easier for you the rider to only use a pound or two of pressure on the bit to keep them going at the desired speed and gait. W/o the shanks you have to use alot more pressure to get the same effect on the end of the bit.
I also wanted to touch on this but I forgot about it until now.

Curb bits are leverage bits that increase the pressure exponentially. You might not think that "a pound or two" of pressure is all that much, but if you actually take the mathematics of the bit and pressure ratio into account you are putting a lot of pressure on that horse's mouth.

Let's say that you're using a bit with an 8 inch shank (which, from what I've seen is about midpoint in what's available in "gaited" bits) and you're maintaining 2 pounds of pressure on the reins and occasionally using 4 or 5 to cue for a downward transition or a stop.

Doesn't seem like much, right?

But those shanks are multiplying the pressure so essentially, you are maintaining 16 pounds of pressure on that horse's mouth. When you ask for him to slow down or stop, he's feeling 32-40 pounds of pressure in his mouth.

When you think of it like that, it doesn't seem like "not that much" anymore, does it?

That's the exact reason why shanked bits like that are supposed to be ridden on loose reins. Picking the slack up out of the reins on a bit like that feels, to the horse, like several ounces of pressure from a regular snaffle.

And, as I said, if you're having to pull your arms out of their sockets, even in a simple snaffle, to get your horse to maintain his gait, then there is something seriously wrong with his training or the way he's being ridden. It shouldn't matter if he's a speed racking horse or a Percheron or an old plodding grade horse, a hard mouth is still a hard mouth and training is still training.

I suppose folks who are happy to put their horse's mouth into a vise grip every time they ride...well, to each their own, but folks like that will never lay a hand on any of my horses.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    01-16-2014, 08:19 PM
  #22
Green Broke
As a gaited horse rider guess I'll comment. First of all, no you don't need a gaited saddle. That said you do have to be much more careful in saddle selection, despite what some have said freedom of motion is very important. Someone watching May not see a difference bit your behind sure can feel one. Which means the saddle you have for your current horse is likely not to work for the next. Gaited saddles are designed a bit different bit that only means you might find a saddle that will work for your horse sooner.

Bits, I used to think the bit didn't matter either. Had a horse that was trained for show before I bought him, I used an ordinary with two inch shanks on a swivel. One day I had to borrow a bridle that had a walker but with 6 inch shanks and his gait smoothed out even more than it was. Reflecting on it I realized it was the type of bit he had been trained in and was more comfortable with.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    01-16-2014, 08:44 PM
  #23
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
I also wanted to touch on this but I forgot about it until now.

Curb bits are leverage bits that increase the pressure exponentially. You might not think that "a pound or two" of pressure is all that much, but if you actually take the mathematics of the bit and pressure ratio into account you are putting a lot of pressure on that horse's mouth.

Let's say that you're using a bit with an 8 inch shank (which, from what I've seen is about midpoint in what's available in "gaited" bits) and you're maintaining 2 pounds of pressure on the reins and occasionally using 4 or 5 to cue for a downward transition or a stop.

Doesn't seem like much, right?

But those shanks are multiplying the pressure so essentially, you are maintaining 16 pounds of pressure on that horse's mouth. When you ask for him to slow down or stop, he's feeling 32-40 pounds of pressure in his mouth.

When you think of it like that, it doesn't seem like "not that much" anymore, does it?

That's the exact reason why shanked bits like that are supposed to be ridden on loose reins. Picking the slack up out of the reins on a bit like that feels, to the horse, like several ounces of pressure from a regular snaffle.

And, as I said, if you're having to pull your arms out of their sockets, even in a simple snaffle, to get your horse to maintain his gait, then there is something seriously wrong with his training or the way he's being ridden. It shouldn't matter if he's a speed racking horse or a Percheron or an old plodding grade horse, a hard mouth is still a hard mouth and training is still training.

I suppose folks who are happy to put their horse's mouth into a vise grip every time they ride...well, to each their own, but folks like that will never lay a hand on any of my horses.
99.9% of the time I ride with 0 pressure on the reins not 1 or 2 pounds. I don't particularly care to ride horses that require contact to gait properly.
     
    01-16-2014, 10:02 PM
  #24
Foal
Well to be honest I have no idea how many lbs im putting on the bit. I've never put a gauge on the reins and bit. Definitely aint a vise grip. I just put that number out there to show you how leverage can be your 'friend'.

I've yet to see a gaited horse that didnt do better with some contact on the bit. I've never seen anyone ride a gaited horse with a loose rein unless they were green as grass and didnt know better. A shanked bit is not meant to be ridden with a loose rein.

And don't let anyone fool ya, but a bit can and will make a huge difference in how most horses will gait. And then the way you hold your hands, where you hold them, and the pressure you have on the bit will have influence on the gait. Not to mention the seat and where your feet are.

And this is where the saddle comes in. Some gaited saddles sits you back and deep which has a strong influence on the gait. And that's not taking into consideration the freed up shoulder movement. Its not rocket science to see how more freedom to move has a strong influence. Its better to have it than to not.

And I will have to disagree with you on the speed gaited horse. That's a whole different story there. Different than even most other types of gaited horses.
     
    01-17-2014, 07:22 AM
  #25
Weanling
I find the using of a curb bit to ease the work of the rider in applying pressure to the mouth bizarre in the extreme. It's a serious perversion of the classical purpose of the curb bit. It also demonstrates a gross lack of training of the horse. This, of course, is the clear and sole responsibility of the owner. They decide how a horse will be trained.

My views on "action devices" have been often stated. My opinion on use of the curb bit follows the "action device" reasoning.

The purpose of the curb bit, like any other bit or bit-less device, is to communicate the rider's instructions to the horse. Because the curb gives the rider the ability to "shout" instructions to the horse its use in classical training comes after a base is laid with less powerful devices (and after the rider learns how to correctly use the hand). In European cultures that first device is usually a mild snaffle. Army Remount Depots followed the European model. In many Latin venues it's the bosal. Then, when a base is laid, the curb is added. This gives the rider an even finer ability to communicate. It allows the rider to "whisper" with their hands.

The length of shank is often a "side issue." Mostly it's a "rabbit trail" that can divert attention from use in the first instance. The M1909 bit (which I use with our stallion when we ride in the double bridle) is about 4". I follow the Army's protocol which was to adjust the reins equally and engage the curb more strongly by a small rotation of the hands (unlike the practices in Dressage or Eventing the military rider usually rides with one hand). Some have advised adjusting the reins by adding a small bit of slack to the curb rein so that the snaffle is primary. I don't have any objection to this.

With some horses the ability to "speak louder" permits the rider to cut through the "static" that sometimes interferes with a horse's "hearing." Once their attention is captured the rider can "speak" in normal tones. In some disciplines use of the curb (or double bridle) is considered the mark of a "finished" horse. The higher levels of Dressage or the traditional California Bridle Horse are two examples. The curb is NOT inherently evil; it IS inherently dangerous when misused.

In the gaited world, as recently described, the curb allows the rider to "bludgeon" the horse's mouth. Worse, the average gaited horse is not prepared for the curb by a course of training in the snaffle or some other device. Folks who follow this "traditional method" often break their two year olds in curbs. Within a very short period of time they have mouths and sides of iron (for extra credit, why would the use of the curb result in a horse "dead to the leg?").

Perhaps to obtain a show ring gait some of the described practices are one way to get there. A rider that "holding up" the horse's head and using a curb bit to relieve the pressure on their hand and arm is doing the exact opposite of what every knowledgeable instructor and trainer has taught since at least the time of Xenophon.

The answer is often given by advocates of the curb in the gaited world is that it "make them gait better." I ask, "define "better; then explain better than what?" I would agree that riding in contact will permit most gaited horses to achieve a better balance and move more easily. But in this mileau is absolutely false that "anything worth doing is worth over-doing." This obsession with gait to the exclusion of the long term utility of the horse is a Very Bad Thing.

Personally, I have to reject this entire approach. What others do is up to them. When they suggest it's a valuable and practical approach to others I'll likely object.

G.
smrobs likes this.
     
    01-18-2014, 11:03 AM
  #26
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity Ridge    

I've never seen anyone ride a gaited horse with a loose rein unless they were green as grass and didnt know better.
Just FYI, gaited horses who will move out on a loose rein may be rare, but they do exist. I own and ride one. No, I'm not green and neither is my horse.
smrobs and Darrin like this.
     
    01-18-2014, 07:46 PM
  #27
Yearling
I've only had 2 gaited ones. One a gaited STB and my present one a TWH. The STB was ridden at gait in a bosal covered in sheepskin. The TWH goes fine in a d-ring snaffle with a roller. Loose reins for both.
The TWH needs a little more work on gait but I'm patient. The standardbred was a gaiting fool!

I've been riding for about 48 yrs.
smrobs, Darrin and Lockwood like this.
     
    01-18-2014, 11:02 PM
  #28
Foal
Yup ...i used to do the same when I first started riding TWHs. And thought I was doing fine, and the horse was doing fine. But that's all I knew b/c all I had ever been on was dead head plod along trotting breeds. But after riding with loose reins and snaffles on "hotter" horses....I FINALLY listened to some true, long in the tooth, experienced horsemen and tighten up on the reins. And you know what??? Those fellas were right. A much better horse, a much better gaited horse, a much better ride.

And when you move up and upgrade to the big motored horse. (if that's your forte') well.....these aint no TWH.

Don't get me wrong, yes you can ride with loose rein, with a snaffle, with nothing but a halter and a blanket on the ol boys back..............heck alec rode the black stallion on a beach with nothing on him, and he was a wild breeding stud, using nothing but his voice to control him.......but, well,,,, you know.

Just don't knock something because of preconceived notions and prejudices till youve truly tried it.

Truthfully no one will ever change their minds and opinions, its human nature. We all human....im done.
     
    01-18-2014, 11:44 PM
  #29
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity Ridge    

Just don't knock something because of preconceived notions and prejudices till youve truly tried it.

.
Iím fairly sure there is not one mention of a bit in any of my own posts on this thread, nor an argument for or against any particular bit. As someone who has truly tried and ridden many different breeds of horses, in many different disciplines... from the mellow dead heads to very hot race horses... I donít carry preconceived notions. The horse world is rife enough with those already.

Each and every horse is an individual and should be taken as such.
     
    01-19-2014, 05:47 PM
  #30
Weanling
I agree what works and fits your horse. I own two Tucker saddles and they work awesome on my TWH. As far as bits I do use a Robarts Pinchless walking horse bit, although rode my mare in a plain ole snaffle when she was young. I think that yes there is a marketing ploy as to what the gaited horse needs. All horses are different and you have to see what works for your horse.
     

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gaited saddle for the non-gaited horse nikelodeon79 Saddle Fitting Issues 7 12-15-2013 02:40 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0