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This is a discussion on nose out within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Dr deb bennett la brida

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    09-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #51
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunksTank    
I very much like your description here. Yes you're right about the 'snaffle' that's the particular definition of one. I think though, most of us referring to them as 'bad' are referring to the ones that are straight across and have only 1 break in the middle. That's the traditional image that pops to mind when someone says 'snaffle'. Though I find one of the nicest bits in the world to be a mullen mouth snaffle, or a french link snaffle. Most snaffles are more mild than many curbs. But how you use it matters most.

I really like your description about it being a Communication Device! Thank you!
I wish I could claim to be the originator of that thought, but I can't. It's likely Xenophon was some 2300 years ago.

G.
     
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    09-10-2012, 04:38 PM
  #52
Started
Lol well, you phrase it well.
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    09-10-2012, 09:40 PM
  #53
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilherme    
Good riding is good riding. The shape of the saddle or the gait of horse is irrelevant. The opposite ends of the riding spectrum are "good riding" and "bad riding."
Not quite, irrelevant, in fact not at all. The english seat for trotting is a forward seat, not even close to the seat needed for western riding a gaited horse. You want to see a good gaited horse start trotting, just ride them in English style, and you can ruin their gait in a heart beat. This is one on the biggest transitions you have to make when switching from trotting horses to gaited horses. We raised and trained trotters for 40+ years, then switch to gaited. BIG transition, we ruined a bunch of them before we found out why, forward seat is not a "NO" with gaited but rather a "HECK NO". I like to call the gaited seat, a chair seat, with the legs much more forward of the seat than english. You ride on your seat pockets, so to speak.

That's why I pointed out that english lessons are at wrong end of the riding spectrum (one end, forward seat, trotters; the other end, chair seat, gaited).

Every wonder why so many folks that have ridden trotting horses for so many years, can not get a good gaited horse to gait. Most of it is in the seat.
     
    09-10-2012, 10:25 PM
  #54
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbsmfg3    
Not quite, irrelevant, in fact not at all. The english seat for trotting is a forward seat, not even close to the seat needed for western riding a gaited horse. You want to see a good gaited horse start trotting, just ride them in English style, and you can ruin their gait in a heart beat. This is one on the biggest transitions you have to make when switching from trotting horses to gaited horses. We raised and trained trotters for 40+ years, then switch to gaited. BIG transition, we ruined a bunch of them before we found out why, forward seat is not a "NO" with gaited but rather a "HECK NO". I like to call the gaited seat, a chair seat, with the legs much more forward of the seat than english. You ride on your seat pockets, so to speak.

That's why I pointed out that english lessons are at wrong end of the riding spectrum (one end, forward seat, trotters; the other end, chair seat, gaited).

Every wonder why so many folks that have ridden trotting horses for so many years, can not get a good gaited horse to gait. Most of it is in the seat.
There is no such thing as a "trotting seat," just as there is no such thing as a "gaited seat." There is just a "seat" suited to the discipline.

I commend to you Dr. Deb Bennett's book Conquerors: The Roots of New World Horsemanship. She breaks down the two basic seats as a la jineta and a la brida.

The "brida" seat is what we call the "chair seat." It was the seat of the mounted knight, the bronc rider, the roper. It puts the feet forward and the butt on the cantle. It allowed the rider to absorb the shocks of fore and aft motion (like getting hit with a lance or taking the strain of roping a steer). It also allows a very "noble" presentation, as by hollowing the back the rider can get more front end action.

The "jineta" seat means the rider sits in the center of the horse, balanced over their feet. It permits a high degree of both lateral and forward movement. It permits quick movements without the rider getting unseated. It is the root of the Sally Swift's "centered riding system" (which she copied, almost verbatim, from the "Ft. Riley seat" as taught by the U.S. Cavalry School, which they copied almost verbatim from the French Cavalry School at Samur). The horse is collected, but not rollkured or overbent. Lightness and action are the watchwords.

A more modern variation on the "jineta" seat is the Caprilli, or "forward" seat developed by Capt. Caprilli of the Italian Cavalry. This was developed to permit better cross country performance as it permitted the horse to jump much more freely and achieve higher levels without unduly hazarding horse or rider. If you're going to jump your gaited horse you're going to do it in the forward seat.

You can ride a gaited horse jineta, brida, or forward. Ditto for the trotter. It all depends on your job.

If you ride a la brida you are going to be traveling hollow. That makes for a smoother gait (in the laterally gaited horse) but the horse's back is paying a price for your comfort. Done in moderation it's not a problem. Done to excess it means a really sore horse.

Again, the seat you select is driven by the job you want to do.

G.
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    09-10-2012, 10:44 PM
  #55
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
of course I can only offer my inexperienced viewpoint. But she seems to be happy and she's very healthy. She naturally gaited, I don't think she's pacey. Her gait isnt the smoothest but she's quick to go into her running walk when I cluck to her. Perhaps its my fault she's not smoother, could be my lack of experience. These are things I don't know. Id love to see her tuck her head. But using her for just trail riding, its not a necessity, course all these posts about correct collection, is all a new thought to me. So im learning.

Have you had a chiro or well experienced person in equine massage therapy/acupressure look at her? Collection aside, she could be nosing out and not smooth because of something that may be bothering her. She could be moving the way she does as a way of compensating for it. While some may say that is "natural," moving with her back hollowed out while carrying weight will eventually cause problems. After all, it isn't natural for a horse to carry a rider anyway lol. I just had Kit from Animal Krackers out to work on my OTTB. He is 22, and while he moved well he always felt a little off to me. Kit did a large amount of deep myofascial release on him, saying he had to have been sore for a long time - possibly years - and while riding the day after my horse was much more responsive and driving himself from his hindquarters. Kit is from AZ, but travels all over the country to work.
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    09-10-2012, 10:55 PM
  #56
Foal
I do have to say it irks me that it was said the worst gaited horse riders started off riding dressage. I do dressage, and I trained/showed TWHs and ASBs with cutbacks (saddleseat) for years before. I sit pretty much the exact same way for both disciplines: balanced, with a nice line from my shoulders to hip to heels. Not forward, not like a chair. The only times I don't do this is when my back is out, in which case I simply sit awful. When I ride hunters, I do sit more forward because it feels more natural to take that stance in that type of saddle, as do most people who ride hunters, and it aids in preparing to jump.
     
    09-11-2012, 08:22 PM
  #57
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiz454    
I do have to say it irks me that it was said the worst gaited horse riders started off riding dressage.
Facts are facts, did not say all dressage riders are the worst, just the worst I've seen were ex dressage riders. The disciplines are completely different. Any horse can be taught to do what's is not natural to them if the rider is good enough, and many dressage riders are good enough to force a gaited horse into an unnatural way of going and still gait. But, I've also seen them completely destroy the gait on very good gaited horses. Been there, done that myself. That's experience speaking, not hear say.
I've seen dressage trainers teach an Arabian to do the Spanish Fiesta. Doesn't mean the Arab was natural it, but he was really very good at doing it.
     
    09-14-2012, 12:44 PM
  #58
Weanling
The way a rider sits can make a big difference in how the horse travels, especially if it is an extreme seat. The extreme chair seat puts all the riders weight on the horses loins. Forward seats put the riders weight up toward the withers. Off balance riders who list to one side and riders who sway in the saddle can also affect a horses gait. The rider needs to be centered and quiet. It the rider is not steady the horse is having to constantly adjust to the rider's weight instead of getting a steady rhymthic gait going.
     

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