Potentially Good News For TWHs? - Page 2
   

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Potentially Good News For TWHs?

This is a discussion on Potentially Good News For TWHs? within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category

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        09-23-2013, 02:07 PM
      #11
    Yearling
    Gah! I all for prosecuting those who participate in, or allow, soring, but I sure hope they don't get all legislation crazy and outlaw everything. The act of soring is the problem - not the bands, pads, etc that are used with much discretion in many breeds (even in TWHs).
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        09-23-2013, 03:01 PM
      #12
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SEAmom    
    Gah! I all for prosecuting those who participate in, or allow, soring, but I sure hope they don't get all legislation crazy and outlaw everything. The act of soring is the problem - not the bands, pads, etc that are used with much discretion in many breeds (even in TWHs).
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    That is exactly right, but add in the ridiculous stacks that I've never seen on any other breed. I don't know how those farriers sleep at night.

    You know it will end up with some idiot congress person taking money from HSUS trying to ban what they don't understand. Like I said, I hope USEF will protect it's breeds.

    And no chains are not only effective on sored horses. Some horses are sensitive and try to step out of them, some could care less. Same as if a person put a chain on their ankle. Some would be hyper aware of it and some would forget about it. And it doesn't cause pain. It's all about conditioning and muscle memory.

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        09-23-2013, 03:39 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aubie    
    The chains are supposed to be no more than 6oz, but they look more than that to me. Is weighing them part of inspection? Also it is my understanding that they are of no use unless the horse has been sored.
    The chain can be weighed as part of the inspection process.

    Chains will be effective without soring. On a sored foot they are much MORE effective.

    No action device is "persistent." Their effect dissipates almost immediately after their removal. They "train" nothing.

    G.
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        09-23-2013, 05:36 PM
      #14
    Yearling
    I wonder what it will be like seeing these horses perform at shows with just training without gadgets. Has anyone seen what the champions looked like in the 30's or 40's?

    I wonder if the Champion breeding stallions are going to be worthy of that hefty breeding fee when people get to see exactly what they're breeding to.
         
        09-23-2013, 06:05 PM
      #15
    Foal
    Neat old videos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
    I wonder what it will be like seeing these horses perform at shows with just training without gadgets. Has anyone seen what the champions looked like in the 30's or 40's?
    Found this video of Midnight Sun on YouTube. It doesn't say when the film was shot, but it does mention that Midnight Sun competed in the 1940"s:

    Here's Strolling Jim:

    And this is Merry Wilson:
         
        09-23-2013, 06:28 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guilherme    
    The central problem is pursuit of a certain way of going. The the pads, stacks, chains, etc. are the route choosen to attain that way of going. Frankly, I'm satisified that over the long haul they have significant negative long term (and short term) consequences for the horse. In short, they are "short cuts" and not the sign of training ability.

    As with all things, YMMV.

    G.
    I'm not sure I would call the stacks/chains/soring "short cuts". An example of a short cut would be poling a jumper (taping the front legs with a pole when it jumps) to get it to pick up its knees over a fence, or using draw reins on a dressage horse instead of teaching to move from behind. Those are both short cut methods used in place of legitimate training methods. My understanding is that stacks/chains/soring are the only methods that can produce the big lick, there are no actual training methods. One of the reasons the big lick needs to go.
         
        09-23-2013, 08:37 PM
      #17
    Foal
    Post cards in mail for the paltry not even 7K eligible to vote TWHBEA members on HR1518/S.1406.

    The numbers are very telling that there is a serious problem with the TWH industry. A drop from over 20K members to less than 8K in under 16 years. Registered foals dropped from 14K to barely 2,500 in the same 16 years.

    The breed was hijacked by the "Soring/Big Lick" crowd but now they are left very alone, and being alone is never a good place to be. The pleasure and flat shod supporters of the breed abandoned a very sinking ship. Question now is, even IF anti soring legislation is passed, is it too late?

    I am a huge lover of the breed, was the first horse I ever road, but I felt forced to leave since I did not support soring (I've never like the Big Lick, always thought even as a small kid that it was ugly and forced) I will go back to the TWHBEA once the soring/Big Lickers are gone.
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        09-24-2013, 08:08 AM
      #18
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
    I wonder what it will be like seeing these horses perform at shows with just training without gadgets. Has anyone seen what the champions looked like in the 30's or 40's?

    I wonder if the Champion breeding stallions are going to be worthy of that hefty breeding fee when people get to see exactly what they're breeding to.
    The truth is, the same people who pay big money to breed a champion will continue to pay big money to breed a champion. Regardless of how it looks.

    People will breed to the horses that win despite the cost and will pay what it takes.

    I get tired of hearing that you can't produce a biglick horse without soring. The pads and chains are part of it but it can and is accomplished without soring y'all should spend more time outside and less time on the WWW.

    Jim
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        09-24-2013, 08:35 AM
      #19
    Yearling
    Those sorry things aren't performance horses. 2 laps around a ring shouldn't wear out any top show horse.

    Yes it's all about the money, which is why the USDA inspectors should keep hitting them hard in the wallet.

    I have a very hard time even watching a short clip of those big lick horses. I would not pay money to see one ever. Will never pay to register one until the big lick is good and dead.

    The big lick is the reason Walkers are thought of as garbage horses up here. Couldn't be further from the truth but that's the perception.

    Even the much hallowed Midnight Sun isn't doing the BL. When I see a horse do it without pads and chains ever being on him I will believe it. My Walker has Midnight Sun all over the place in her breeding. She does nothing close to a big lick. Moves an awful lot like Midnight Sun but no Lick. The weird gaping holes in her training also tell me somebody didn't know what they were doing. Not sure if I have a failed BL horse or a mare broke for quick sale but she still has odd inexplicable holes in what she knows.

    Time for the Big Lick to die and time for the trainers ( and I hesitate to use that word) to adapt or die too.
         
        09-24-2013, 08:39 AM
      #20
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmyp    
    The truth is, the same people who pay big money to breed a champion will continue to pay big money to breed a champion. Regardless of how it looks.

    People will breed to the horses that win despite the cost and will pay what it takes.

    I get tired of hearing that you can't produce a biglick horse without soring. The pads and chains are part of it but it can and is accomplished without soring y'all should spend more time outside and less time on the WWW.

    Jim
    This is the Great Half Truth (or, if you will, the Great Half Lie) that the Sore Lick folks have perpetrated for years.

    Yes, you can create the Big Lick without soring. No, you won't win any ribbons if you do.

    Not only will people "pay what it takes" to win, they will DO what it takes to win. That has included soring since at least the mid-50s. So the argument that somehow soring is an abberation or the province of a few bad apples is just debunked by the history of the problem.

    So, yes, it can be done without soring. But it will mean no ribbons for the effort and significant, negative physical consequences for the horse (short and long term).

    G.
         

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