Potentially Good News For TWHs? - Page 4
 
 

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Potentially Good News For TWHs?

This is a discussion on Potentially Good News For TWHs? within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category

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        09-25-2013, 09:34 AM
      #31
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmyp    
    Look... I am neither for nor against big lick. While I have no use for a padded horse, I have friends in the industry whom I trust and respect, so I just hate to hear them all lumped into the same pile of soring trainers. I did indeed watch your videos and they are certainly a better depiction of the TWH breed than a padded horse. However, I have said it on this forum before and will likely say it again....... folks striving for a "trait" within a breed that is harmful to the breed as a whole is not limited to the TWH or big lick...... I just get very tired of all the propaganda on the WWW, by folks who have no real idea of what's going on other than to "me too" or to reference BS YouTube trash that is about as reliable as wikipedia.....

    Jim
    Some of us get tired of the "propaganda" from the Sore Lick community contending that the creation of this extreme way of going is completely harmess to the horse and represents some epitome' of beauty and grace.

    The bio-mechanics of the Big Lick gait, with or without soring, are that the animal suffers long and short term injury from its creation. Do you "trust and respect" folks who inflict injury on an animal in the name of crowd pleasing? One of the arguments heard from the Big Lick creators is that "every breed and/or discipline has some sort of negative practices used to maintain a tradition or entertainment value." This is likely true. As an example, I'm not a fan of flat racing, but I do enjoy watching good cross country riders. That is a discipline that puts horse and rider at risk of injury. What would be the difference? The word "risk." The cross country rider hazards himself and his horse but if he's properly trained himself and his horse then he can manage that risk and keep it at a reasonable level. The Big Lick horse is not at risk of injury it is being injured. The injury is intentional and knowing. That, IMO, is morally and ethically monstrous.

    Beauty, of course, exists in the eye of the beholder. So there's no reason to even go there.

    I'm not so naive as to think that elimination of action devices will end abusive practices. As long as front end action is the Object of the Exercise trainers will engage in questionalbe practices to get it. But their elimination would be a major step in the right direction.

    G.
         
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        09-25-2013, 09:52 AM
      #32
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guilherme    
    The bio-mechanics of the Big Lick gait, with or without soring, are that the animal suffers long and short term injury from its creation. Do you "trust and respect" folks who inflict injury on an animal in the name of crowd pleasing? .
    I don't necessarily buy all of this. While I know we have all heard horror stories of folks who have rescued a horse that was previously on pads and is now a basket case, I know for a fact there are as many ex padded horses whether washed out or retired who are being used succesfully in other disciplines. I know of several guys who field trial, that ride ex padded horses that just didn't make the cut..... on the other hand I know of several retired or washed out OTTB that are under 10, but due to seriouse injury or or being bat**** crazy they will live the next 15ish years on a pasture some where. No one is blowing up the TB industry every time the the breed is mentioned.

    The fact is, much like with anything in our lives we rarely hear the success stories, because folks are more interested in pushing an agenda.

    And yes I do trust and respect these trainers and have zero issue about taking my own horses to them when I have a question and have zero issue with taking their advice as gospel.

    There are also trainers whom I would cross the street to avoid, but there are those in all diciplines, whether its horses, dogs, or coaching sports.

    Now, Ill agree to disagree and bow out.

    Jim
         
        09-25-2013, 10:30 AM
      #33
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimmyp    
    I don't necessarily buy all of this. While I know we have all heard horror stories of folks who have rescued a horse that was previously on pads and is now a basket case, I know for a fact there are as many ex padded horses whether washed out or retired who are being used succesfully in other disciplines. I know of several guys who field trial, that ride ex padded horses that just didn't make the cut..... on the other hand I know of several retired or washed out OTTB that are under 10, but due to seriouse injury or or being bat**** crazy they will live the next 15ish years on a pasture some where. No one is blowing up the TB industry every time the the breed is mentioned.

    The fact is, much like with anything in our lives we rarely hear the success stories, because folks are more interested in pushing an agenda.

    And yes I do trust and respect these trainers and have zero issue about taking my own horses to them when I have a question and have zero issue with taking their advice as gospel.

    There are also trainers whom I would cross the street to avoid, but there are those in all diciplines, whether its horses, dogs, or coaching sports.

    Now, Ill agree to disagree and bow out.

    Jim
    I don't ask you to "buy" anything 'cause I say it. Or because of rumor or "stories." I do ask you to examine some of the work of Dr. Hillary Clayton or Dr. Deb Bennett, both of whom have done some significant work on equine bio-mechanics. Neither have ever specifically examined a Big Lick horse. Both have written well about how horses move and how rider action influences movement.

    The Big Lick world is rife with people who were "respected" and turned out to to charletains. The recent examples are "Hall of Famers" McConnell and Wheelon. There's another "name" not two miles from me of the same ilk.

    Or you could just watch an hour or two of Big Lick horses move and then do the same with a variety of other horses move (both gaited an non-gaited) and then compare and contrast those movements.

    Or you could ask your farrier what happens when you alter the front hoof a horse by lengthening the toe (naturally or artificially) and dropping the heel. If they don't know (and many don't) then ask your vet. If they don't know (and many don't) then ask Dr. Clayton or Dr. Bennett. Bennett, at least, has a web forum where she answers questions.

    At the end of the day the physical evidence of the consequences of these practices is undeniable.

    G.
         
        09-25-2013, 06:35 PM
      #34
    Green Broke
    Horse trainer speaks out after animal cruelty charge dropped
    I was shocked charges were dismissed. Isn't this the guy in the video that was beating the horse while it was laying down?
         
        09-25-2013, 07:33 PM
      #35
    Started
    Churumbeque, the case was dismissed on a technicality, one of the procedural rules got broken inadvertently.
         
        09-25-2013, 11:19 PM
      #36
    Foal
    The hyperflexation of the knees is what causes problems for the horse. If you look at videos the knees "snap" backwards doing a hyperflextion. This can cause long term knee damage to the horse. Also, with the hocks being so far underneath it causes stifle and hock issues, normally arthritis and some hocks do get a lot of calcification.

    This artificial way of going is doing long term damage to the horse, and it is up to the individual horse to know how much damage they can take before they breakdown. Some don't last long and wash out pretty quickly, others are able to take the abuse for much longer.

    At the end of the day, any man made gait is going to cause long term damage to the joints of the horse as they are being used contrary to what nature designed.
    Malda likes this.
         
        09-27-2013, 08:48 AM
      #37
    Started
    http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...results-uproar
         
        09-30-2013, 05:24 PM
      #38
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by princessfluffybritches    
    I wonder what it will be like seeing these horses perform at shows with just training without gadgets. Has anyone seen what the champions looked like in the 30's or 40's?

    I wonder if the Champion breeding stallions are going to be worthy of that hefty breeding fee when people get to see exactly what they're breeding to.

    The incomparable Midnight Sun....
         
        09-30-2013, 05:25 PM
      #39
    Green Broke
         
        09-30-2013, 05:26 PM
      #40
    Green Broke
    Strolling Jim....was a plow horse, even though he was TWH all the way.

    13 straight blue ribbons....
         

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