Remove the trot or learn to ride it? :/
   

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Remove the trot or learn to ride it? :/

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  • Riding the trot
  • Standardbred trot bouncy fast

 
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    06-22-2009, 03:36 PM
  #1
Zab
Yearling
Remove the trot or learn to ride it? :/

Hi, again :P
I'll once again show you all my ignorance by writing a post x) Please be patient with me..

For those who doesn't know, I have a gaited standardbred, Crow. He does the rack, the stepping pace and at a few times, two beat ''flying'' pace. He also trots and canters.

I've decided to, gait-wise, work only for the rack. Maybe later on I'll find two beat pace fun, afterall it's pretty awesomely fast :P Well his rack is too, it's always fun to just fly past the other horses when they canter, and I just sit there all smoothly.. But I don't like the stepping pace.

He also canters, which I'm not going to stop. It does affect the gait in that that he ''rolls'' a bit like in canter, but not worse than that I can take him out of it - it's just a training issue.

And he trots.. and this is my problem. I like his trot, and I really don't want to get rid of it. It's awfully big and bouncy, but it's good, beautiful and well balanced.. However..I can't teach him the differense from when he should trot and when I want him to gait! >_< I can normally bring him back to a gait, but I have difficulties to get him to trot when I want to, actually.. nothing seem to have worked.. But under this circumstanses, it's hard to teach us both a good cue for trot, and one for rack.. It's also difficult to try and affect the rack, if I notice he's more pacey or trotty than I prefer, without getting a trot instead. It's also difficult to work on the canter cues, since he might just start trotting..
Another part of it all is that after he started trotting the first time, his gait improoved as well. It loosened up the stepping pace to a nice rack... he has the most wonderful gait ever when he des it right, lifted back, an even fourbeat to the ground and smooth as silk.. listens to just the thought of speeding up or slowing down.. *daydreams*
Also, at the moment, I'm bareback, so every time he trots I loose my balance and often yanks his mouth since that's the only way I can get him to stop trotting.. :S That or almost fall off - he stops when e feels I'm way too much off balance..

What do you think I should do? Should I just force myself to learn how to sit his huge, but lovely, standardbred trot, or should I focus on removing it from his list of talents?
I don't really want to loose it completely, but I don't quite know how to handle it without a saddle.. it feels easier to just remove it.. do you think I could work on getting it back once everything else is perfect?
Or should I work on getting good cues for both? :/

I really can't make up my mind, but it feels like it's too much at once at the moment, maybe I should put the trot on ice for now and just go with his rack.. make it to be that loverly, floatig thing he does at time, and ignore all comments about him racking only because he's too weak to trot.. >_>

Him gaiting when it's at the worst.. x) I do need to work more on the gait.. I said it was really good when he did it right, not that I managed to get it right very often :P
I probably need more speed and energy, but it was the first time since the saddle broke..and I'm still a scaredycat :P


     
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    06-22-2009, 03:56 PM
  #2
Weanling
Maybe half haults at the trot until he slows it down a bit? I haven't trained gaited horses, so I'm not sure on that, however, that is what I do to slow down a trot ... or a canter for that matter.
Where in Sweden are you? I have a cousin in Eslov. :)
     
    06-22-2009, 04:12 PM
  #3
Zab
Yearling
Had I had a saddle, I wouldn't have any problem slowing him down, but as it is now, I'm falling forward and clutching his neck to not fall off, so.. :P
But my issue still remains, I coudn't get the differense between the gaits there even with a saddle.. :/ And it is harder to work with the gait when he think it's ok to just start trotting,..

I'm near Helsingborg, not too far from Eslöv :)
     
    06-22-2009, 04:32 PM
  #4
Green Broke
Ok, I have a semi-gaited mare. Her trot isnt as big and bold as yous is, its really actually quite choppy. Maybe just try to learn how to ride it out before making a bold change? :)
     
    06-22-2009, 04:51 PM
  #5
Showing
I have no idea. I have never even seen a gaited horse in real life that I can remember. I just wanted to say that crow is still as gorgeous as the first pictures of him I saw. :)
     
    06-23-2009, 09:09 PM
  #6
Green Broke
Well, personally, I'd stick with the gait ;)
Just my opinon tho. It is a WHOLE lot easier to sit (obviously--especially on the trail), and it's beautiful in it's own way..Standardbred did you say? I don't have much experience with those, but I'll bet it is rather hard getting a horse that was trained to trot, gait..In Gaited Horses > Trotting TWHs, there is some info on getting them to gait (I think you already saw it tho). Also, cantering is actually supposed to HELP the gait, so instead of trotting, maybe canter instead--Well, at least when you get a saddle!
     
    06-24-2009, 05:44 PM
  #7
Zab
Yearling
ilovemyPhillip: It's not really a bold change, he usually chose to gait anyway :) But untill now I've worked to get him to trot too, since I like having horses that can trot, and since they're supposed to do it. And he does it nicely, just big, and I don't really like trotting anyways, not even before I got a gaited horse x) And I can't find a cue that works for getting trot at trot and gait at gait, not as it is now, definetly not without a saddle... It's just confusing us, so maybe I should let the rest of horse-sweden curse me and just go for the gait..

Smrobs:
Naw, thank you! :)

Sunny06: Yeah, I think I'll discourage the trot, at least for now. Maybe later on, with a good saddle, I'll try to get it again.. but it's just confusing now, he needs to learn to gait properly first before I try to teach him all different kinds of cues... :3
I'm already cantering him, bareback ;) He has a lovely canter. If I do it too much tho I have to pay attention to not let him ''roll'' in the gait, he likes to pick up a canter-tact when he's eager, if I'm not careful. It's easy to correct, so I don't see it as a real problem.
Getting him to gait has never really been a problem, he prefers a gait instead of trot when you ride. Or did at first, but both my trainer and I have encouraged the trot (since, as I said, horses here are supposed to be able to trot under rider. Period. And the trot has some good qualities that's harder to get with only the gait.) and now he tends to break off to a trot if he's tired or well.. just because he thinks that's good. He missed our attempts to teach him to trot at one seat and gait at the other. I normally get him back to the gait tho, a little difficult with that huge trot bareback, since it throws me off balance, but normally I get it back. If I'd have a saddle I'd probably manage to teach him the differense between a trot and a gait, but I'm just not sure it's worth it anymore, and if I want it later I'm quite sure I can get it then.
His gait isn't always perfect, so it needs work. Sometimes it's just.. I can't describe it. Heavenly, really, with selfcarriage, smooth and he obeys the mere thought if I want him to change anything like speed or so.. but a lot of the time it's either a stepping pace, a bit trotty or just not really right..
So I think I'll put my effort in getting the gait right, and discourage the trot. :)

One of my first pictures of us, it was before he learnt to trot under a rider ;) It's not his best gaiting, when it's at the best he carries himself way better which he didn't have the strength to do then, but it's the, as far as I can judge, best photo of his gait when it's the right beat.. Normally when he does the gait really nice, it's in the middle of the woods with no camera man.. :S Not too weird since that's where I usually ride and where there's space enough to let him go fast..


A more recent picture, I really need to let him go faster again. (I normally ride with a snaffle and always with a helmet, this was just a photoshoot) but this is how it tends to be now, less good.. well, I try to judge as well as I can.. but I think it's more trotty? Anyway.. more speed and a firmer ground fixes that.. then I just have to watch out for pace x)


Not very fun to see it's getting worse.. but what I really need is good pictures of his gait when he does it like he does in the woods.. not on grass or when he's all eager and rushy on a road and just runs.. :/ Anyone wanna come to sweden to take pictures for me? XD

And the trot.. also not as his normal trot.. and my seat is way off due to that saddle..I hate it.. >_>; It's the only trot-picture I have tho.. but that entire ride was a struggle between us, that's why the picture isn't honest..


It sounds like I'm just making excuses.. but it's really annoying to not have any pictures at all of when it's good or at least normal :(
     
    06-24-2009, 06:07 PM
  #8
Zab
Yearling
I think I actually tried to get a trot here.. x) hm..
It's the only saddle I have at the moment, and I hate it..I only used it to be able to keep my balance somewhat when trotting, since I tred to get that trot right.. but I really, utterly hate it.

Anyway.. I think this picture is the one being most similiar to his gait in the woods, when he has what I think is the decent - but rather slow - gait. Not the perfect one but a decent one that could get better.. :/
Opinions on how he moves, and am I way off in my judgement? I don't know much of other gaited horses than icelandics, and my opinions and thoughts is based on what I know about horse anatomy and so on in general..

     
    06-25-2009, 11:54 AM
  #9
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab    
ilovemyPhillip: It's not really a bold change, he usually chose to gait anyway :) But untill now I've worked to get him to trot too, since I like having horses that can trot, and since they're supposed to do it. And he does it nicely, just big, and I don't really like trotting anyways, not even before I got a gaited horse x) And I can't find a cue that works for getting trot at trot and gait at gait, not as it is now, definetly not without a saddle... It's just confusing us, so maybe I should let the rest of horse-sweden curse me and just go for the gait..

Smrobs: Naw, thank you! :)

Sunny06: Yeah, I think I'll discourage the trot, at least for now. Maybe later on, with a good saddle, I'll try to get it again.. but it's just confusing now, he needs to learn to gait properly first before I try to teach him all different kinds of cues... :3
I'm already cantering him, bareback ;) He has a lovely canter. If I do it too much tho I have to pay attention to not let him ''roll'' in the gait, he likes to pick up a canter-tact when he's eager, if I'm not careful. It's easy to correct, so I don't see it as a real problem.
Getting him to gait has never really been a problem, he prefers a gait instead of trot when you ride. Or did at first, but both my trainer and I have encouraged the trot (since, as I said, horses here are supposed to be able to trot under rider. Period. And the trot has some good qualities that's harder to get with only the gait.) and now he tends to break off to a trot if he's tired or well.. just because he thinks that's good. He missed our attempts to teach him to trot at one seat and gait at the other. I normally get him back to the gait tho, a little difficult with that huge trot bareback, since it throws me off balance, but normally I get it back. If I'd have a saddle I'd probably manage to teach him the differense between a trot and a gait, but I'm just not sure it's worth it anymore, and if I want it later I'm quite sure I can get it then.
His gait isn't always perfect, so it needs work. Sometimes it's just.. I can't describe it. Heavenly, really, with selfcarriage, smooth and he obeys the mere thought if I want him to change anything like speed or so.. but a lot of the time it's either a stepping pace, a bit trotty or just not really right..
So I think I'll put my effort in getting the gait right, and discourage the trot. :)

One of my first pictures of us, it was before he learnt to trot under a rider ;) It's not his best gaiting, when it's at the best he carries himself way better which he didn't have the strength to do then, but it's the, as far as I can judge, best photo of his gait when it's the right beat.. Normally when he does the gait really nice, it's in the middle of the woods with no camera man.. :S Not too weird since that's where I usually ride and where there's space enough to let him go fast..


A more recent picture, I really need to let him go faster again. (I normally ride with a snaffle and always with a helmet, this was just a photoshoot) but this is how it tends to be now, less good.. well, I try to judge as well as I can.. but I think it's more trotty? Anyway.. more speed and a firmer ground fixes that.. then I just have to watch out for pace x)


Not very fun to see it's getting worse.. but what I really need is good pictures of his gait when he does it like he does in the woods.. not on grass or when he's all eager and rushy on a road and just runs.. :/ Anyone wanna come to sweden to take pictures for me? XD

And the trot.. also not as his normal trot.. and my seat is way off due to that saddle..I hate it.. >_>; It's the only trot-picture I have tho.. but that entire ride was a struggle between us, that's why the picture isn't honest..


It sounds like I'm just making excuses.. but it's really annoying to not have any pictures at all of when it's good or at least normal :(
^^ So what exactly are you wanting to know? It's hard to judge from pictures how well you do getting him to gait, but I did notice in the first picture that you were leaning forward quite a bit. Riding gaited horses, you need to SIT back on your tailbone (not to be confused with leaning--don't lean back) , and absorb the movement in your butt and heels. Collect him. In the first picture he was very stiff and was poking his hed out, so you really need to work on collection. Def got that Standardbred thing. The last 2 pictures were pretty good collection-wise. Try maybe putting a bit in his mouth--might help the collection. The last picture was actually great if you want him to trot! He was very out-reached and stretching out, and you looked pretty good as well.
In the first picture, was he bouncy? He looks like he's pacing but I'm not sure..In the second photo, he was not trotting. If ever there was anything undesirable it would be a pace, but that was not a pace either. More of a walk than anything. If you had sped him up, he'd have probably gone into a gait. Just practice, practice, practice:) It's not going to change overnight.
     
    06-25-2009, 02:17 PM
  #10
Zab
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny06    
^^ So what exactly are you wanting to know? It's hard to judge from pictures how well you do getting him to gait, but I did notice in the first picture that you were leaning forward quite a bit. Riding gaited horses, you need to SIT back on your tailbone (not to be confused with leaning--don't lean back) , and absorb the movement in your butt and heels. Collect him. In the first picture he was very stiff and was poking his hed out, so you really need to work on collection. Def got that Standardbred thing. The last 2 pictures were pretty good collection-wise. Try maybe putting a bit in his mouth--might help the collection. The last picture was actually great if you want him to trot! He was very out-reached and stretching out, and you looked pretty good as well.
In the first picture, was he bouncy? He looks like he's pacing but I'm not sure..In the second photo, he was not trotting. If ever there was anything undesirable it would be a pace, but that was not a pace either. More of a walk than anything. If you had sped him up, he'd have probably gone into a gait. Just practice, practice, practice:) It's not going to change overnight.
I just want some help to decide wether to keep working on getting the trot or to skip trotting and work only with the gait :P

I know about the first picture, it's the first picture of his gait I got at all and that saddle is horrible to ride in. It's a jumping saddle.. It's also one of the first times we were doing anything faster than a regular walk and he was less than green broke at the time, so of course he wasn't collected. Just wanted to show that he is indeed racking/gaiting and not just pacing (it might be a tad on the pacey side there but I'm pretty sure it's rack. At least it is clearly fourbeat). Lots of people keep claiming he can only do the stepping pace if anything since he's a standie. :) And no, he was pretty smooth, but not as smooth as in that perfect, heavenly gait I keep talking about but can't prove yet :) (He did it again today I just love that feeling, like floating uphill.. he has a high headset there too but an arched neck and a less poking nose, also on a slack rein..but afterwards he got tired and just paced/step paced, so we walked the rest of the way)

And the other pictures are much more recent, so he, and I, have learnt to collect better :) But you say the second picture is more lateral than diagonal? I know it's not a trot but I believed it was a too diagonal runwalk/flat walk/something, I definetly guessed on a diagonal/''trotty'' problem with it... It's definetly not a regular walk (the kind all horses, including non-gaited, do), too fast, smooth and his tail never get those waves in regular walk. There's a clear breaking point from the normal walk to this, but I suppose that's hard to see on a photo..

Yes, I tried trotting there.. it's not his best trot since we fought most of that session and that saddle really hates me (it's the same as in the first picture, I can't sit properly in it) but it's decent. I'm just not sure I'll keep trying to trot him since it's to much of a hassle to teach him to trot when I want trot and gait when I want gait.. and I don't really like trotting. It's just that people claim that ALL horses need to trot.. :S

Thanks for the input, I mostly showed the pictures to show that he does gait, and trot as well.. and of course I like getting critique and comments on his gait by people who know more about gaited horses (other than icelandics) and I wished I could see myself how things look and how the gait should look.
Can you say anything about the very last picture, the one in the separate post? :)

I'm still trying to find people that can film us.. >< He's definetly gaiting, I'm just not sure exactly what gait, or if there's anything undesireable in it/them. And I know he ixes and messes the gait up at times.. I try to listen to the beat when I'm gaitin, and when it sounds as even as possible, after what I can hear, I expect it to be right, and then I go after feeling to judge if he's carrying himself.. that's much easier x)

And about the bits, he has been started bitless, had curbs+bitless cavessons, hackamores+cavessons, only cavessons and only a snaffle. The second picture is the only one where he ever was ridden with just a curb. So he has been worked in most types of bits. And he behaves pretty much the same on all of them.
Today when I got that lovely ''up-hill feeling'' gait, he had a hackamore-sidepull combination.
     

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