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Saddlebreds vs. Walkers

81K views 136 replies 38 participants last post by  MonicaWirick 
#1 · (Edited)
It frustrates me to no end when people lump these two breeds together, so I just wanted to make an EDUCATIONAL thread to point out the differences. I don't mean to bash Saddlebreds or Walkers. I love both breeds.

I owned and showed Saddlebreds for 10 years before I got bored and got a Western trail horse. I never saw or heard of any abuse while I was involved in the industry. I literally never heard of anybody putting anything harmful on a Saddlebred's legs or hooves. The two things I hear people bashing about Saddlebred training methods are the chains and the stretchies. The chains are very light, and fit loosely around the pastern. Their purpose is to make the horse feel like he wants to lift his leg out of the chain simply because it's around his foot... not because it's hurting him. Some Walker people put motor oil and other corrosive materials on the pastern before putting their heavy chains on to cause the horse pain to make him lift his legs higher. That's completely different from how the Saddlebred chains are used. The other thing is the stretchies (a bungee cord connecting the two front legs together by fleece-covered straps around the pasterns). Honestly, I don't even see how anyone could think stretchies are abusive. They are there to build muscles in the leg - that's all. There's absolutely no pain involved.

One year, my barn went to a show in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It was a joint show for Saddlebreds and Walkers. While we were there, we witnessed all of the horrible things you hear about happening to the big lick Walkers. The amount of horses being abused at the show was really horrible. And the people who work at the show and the judges don't even attempt to get involved. My trainer refused to go back to that show.

I've boarded my horses alongside hundreds of Saddlebreds. I never witnessed any of those horses being abused. They all got turned out daily during the off season, and got a lot of exercise during the show season. I've boarded at the same barn as three Walkers. Two were flatshod trail horses. One was padded, beaten, and neglected.

I know that abuse goes on in every discipline. I know that. I'm not even going to deny that it happens in the Saddlebred industry. I'm just saying that I never saw anything in my ten years with Saddlebreds, and I saw a LOT of horrible things during my five days with Walkers. I also know that there are plenty of Walkers who are not abused at all.

So please don't start posting angry comments saying "Not every Walker owner is an abuser!" You're wasting your time, because I already said that. I realize that every discipline has abusers and non-abusers. I just think that the Walker industry has an enormous percentage of abusers compared to other disciplines.



Now I'll show you some pictures. I'm comparing a 5-Gaited Saddlebred to a Big Lick Walker. These are comparable classes - the big jackpot, the one everybody wants to win, the last class on Saturday night.

Here is a World Champion 5-Gaited Saddlebred:


Here is a video of the same horse:



Here is a World Champion Big Lick Walker:


I couldn't find a video of the same horse, but here is another Big Lick World Champion:




Now, I can completely understand how someone used to Quarter Horses or another stock breed can lump these breeds together. They both have naturally high headsets and tucked in noses, they can both be gaited, they have similar tails, and they both have high knee and hock action. But when you compare the two like I've just done, can you see the huge difference?

Look at the size of the pads/hooves. Look at the length of the stride, and how completely stretched out the Walker is. Look at how collected the Saddlebred is, in comparison. In the videos, look at how many strides the Saddlebred does in a single one of the Walker's strides. It's absolutely ridiculous.

The worst thing about the pictures, in my opinion, is the hind end. Look at the Saddlebred's shoulders and hindquarters. They're in a straight line. Now compare that to the Walker's shoulders and hindquarters. The hindquarters are wayyyy lower than the shoulders. Imagine the strain that position puts on the Walker's hind end.

I think the Saddlebred looks like a real horse. A hot, animated horse, but a real horse nonetheless. To me, the Walker looks like a caricature of a horse. How would you even draw a caricature of a Walker? There's nothing you can do to exaggerate it more.



Here is a picture of a young Saddlebred naturally carrying their head high and lifting their legs high. It looks suspiciously similar to the Saddlebreds in the show ring. I have yet to see a picture of a young, untouched Walker that looks anything like a padded Walker in the show ring. That alone should tell you how much more man-made and unnatural the Walkers are.







Woah... I'm sorry this is so long. I guess I got carried away.

Now, before people get angry, I'm going to state a few things again... I DON'T think all Walker owners are abusers. I DON'T hate Walkers. I DON'T think Saddlebreds are better than Walkers. I DO think there are more Walker abusers than Saddlebred abusers. I DO think the big lick Walkers look ridiculous and unnatural, whether you think they have been abused or not.


Feel free to respond with your thoughts, whether you agree with me or not.

I would particularly like to hear from someone who previously thought Saddlebreds and Walkers looked similar, and can now see the difference. That was the purpose of this thread.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I think that the "grouping" that people do is because they are both gaited horses, who are bred specifically for flashiness and gaits (making them BOTH man-made). I think they both look pretty hollow and bracing in the show ring. Almost all of the saddlebreds I have met and seen online have upside-down necks. Although I see your point completely, the TWH shows are a lot less natural and more abusive. But let's be honest, the only great horse breed that came out of america that is adored by all is the QH, there is no replacement for them so don't look down on people who are "used to QHs" they are one of the most important breeds in the world, up there with the WBs, TBs, and Arabs. And by the way, I happen to know an idiot saddlebred owner who doesn't give a damn about her horse.

In terms of a great build for a horse, I think of this: http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdir/dutch/dw0011/dw0011lg.jpg
 
#3 ·
I wasn't looking down on Quarter Horses at all - The only thing I said about them was that they are a lot different than Saddlebreds and Walkers. Am I wrong?

And seriously? The ONLY great horse breed to come out of America that is adored by all? That's a little snobby. Sure... They might be one of the most popular breeds in America, but that doesn't make them the greatest and it definitely doesn't make them the ONLY great breed.

You know ONE idiot Saddlebred owner? You don't think there are stuck-up people who don't care about their horses in every breed? I certainly think so.




Last thing... I know that they were BOTH created for their flashy gaits, but that wasn't what I meant by man-made. If that's what you consider man-made, then TBs were man-made for their speed, Arabs were man-made for their stamina, drafts were man-made for their strength... and so on. Almost all breeds were created for a specific purpose. What I meant by "man-made" is how the individual horses are changed from the time they are born to the time they are shown.
 
#4 · (Edited by Moderator)
When I have the time, I will come back with an army of grovelling smileys for you, CM.

Saddlebreds were bred for riding(hence the name), bred for versatility. Way back in the day(and not too far back mind) before the horse was replaced by machinery on farms, a lot of farmers would work their Saddlers in the field and then ride them to the shows and show them at night... Send an email to the exec. secretary of the ASHA. He has some stories now. For many many years, up until after WWII the American Saddlebred was as practical a horse as you could get. They are hardy, intelligent, refined, and most of all a good ride. They are like a Lexus or Mercedes SUV(though American Made). A QH is like a good truck

The Quarter Horse is most definitely not the "only great horse breed to come out of America". They are great, I'll give them that. I have a token QH who is my Saddlebred's best bud. I learned to ride on one before I moved on to my Saddlebred. But we are not here to discuss QH vs ASB.

The necks are a product of breeding and way of going. Personally, since I am breeding for a high head carriage, along with a certain way of going, if I had a foal that looked like that bay, I'd be on suicide watch. I would have utterly failed at breeding. You could never expect that bay to travel anyway but long and low. You couldn't ask him to raise up, collect, and move like a Saddlebred. They are completely different. I bet that bay moved and looked very similar when he was a foal. Just like that lovely spotted colt looks and moves like a baby saddlebred should.

As for your friend, roro, a saddlebred does not make the owner. You said it yourself. She is an idiot who doesn't care about her horse. She likely wouldn't care about it if it were a QH or any other breed. She just happened to choose a Saddlebred. I am surrounded by people who don't care about their horses, and yes, some of those horses are Saddlebreds as well.

If you want to get into the practicality and success of the American Saddlebred, start at (edited, no links to other forums) and and I'll add more tomorrow. Look up "Wing Tempo" while you are at it. "Harry Callahan" American Saddlebreds are successful in everything from driving to dressage to mounted shooting.

I will also post exerpts from a book of "the Horse" printed back when the top American Breeds were Saddlebreds, Standardbreds, Walkers, TBs, QHs and Drafts about the development, way of going, and comparisons of the TWH and ASB fifty some odd years ago.
 
#9 ·
When I have the time, I will come back with an army of grovelling smileys for you, CM.
Haha, why?




You expect people not to be angry when you generalize TWHs as more abused based on your own experiences but get angry when someone mentions that they met a bad saddlebred owner and do not adore the breed? Isn't that a tad ironic?
First of all, I think the word you're looking for is "hypocritical," not ironic. And second of all, no, it's not. I said that I never saw any abuse in ten years with Saddlebreds and saw a huge amount of abuse in five days with Walkers. I was comparing the two. You just said you knew one bad owner, which is irrelevant anyway because there's way more than one person in EVERY breed that doesn't care about their horse.

Also, I didn't get angry about the face that you don't like Saddlebreds. I don't care if you don't like them. The only things I was annoyed about was your comment about QHs and about the ONE bad Saddlebred owner. Then I told you what I meant about man-made, and I wasn't angry about that at all. I never said anything about you not liking them.



Almost all western horses are QHs, the whole industry basically depends on that breed, making them more "crucial". I didn't say they were the greatest horses. I have never owned a QH, but it is easy to see that they are very important. I did not say they were superior at all.
Your exact quote was "But let's be honest, the only great horse breed that came out of america that is adored by all is the QH, there is no replacement for them..." How is that not saying they are superior?



A gaited horse is more "artificial" than another horse. The wild horses that all modern horses decended from did NOT gait at all. The standard horse breeds we have now (TBs, QH,s etc) are simply selected breeding on trying to improve the horse for human use, they did not invent an entirely new gait for a horse to do.
You are completely wrong here. Have you ever heard of a Spanish Jennet? They were gaited horses that are now extinct. They were crossed with Andalusians and Barbs to create Paso Finos hundreds of years ago. There were other gaited horse breeds, as well, and they were used hundreds of years ago. Just because you don't know about the history of gaited horses, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

And again, that isn't what I meant by man-made.



LadyDreamer: the horse picture I showed is a Dutch Warmblood, ie one of the main breeds that are at the top dressage shows. You sure as hell can't convince me that a Dutch WB "can't collect".
She didn't say he couldn't collect. She said he couldn't collect LIKE A SADDLEBRED, and he can't.
 
#5 · (Edited)
You expect people not to be angry when you generalize TWHs as more abused based on your own experiences but get angry when someone mentions that they met a bad saddlebred owner and do not adore the breed? Isn't that a tad ironic?

Almost all western horses are QHs, the whole industry basically depends on that breed, making them more "crucial". I didn't say they were the greatest horses. I have never owned a QH, but it is easy to see that they are very important. I did not say they were superior at all.

A gaited horse is more "artificial" than another horse. The wild horses that all modern horses decended from did NOT gait at all. The standard horse breeds we have now (TBs, QH,s etc) are simply selected breeding on trying to improve the horse for human use, they did not invent an entirely new gait for a horse to do.

LadyDreamer: the horse picture I showed is a Dutch Warmblood, ie one of the main breeds that are at the top dressage shows. You sure as hell can't convince me that a Dutch WB "can't collect".
 
#6 ·
Well this thread certainly is interesting. I think the first picture of the saddlebred looks natural. Well, what I mean is that it looks normal for that build of horse, with that kind of head carriage. But the Big Lick horse, when I saw that, I thought it was scary. I'm not familiar with any of these breeds cause I'm Australian but I think that the big lick horse looks forced to do that. These horses were bred for a specific purpose, and now I think people are trying to take the high-stepping factor a bit too far. Sure, they do have a lot of action in their hocks and knees, but shouldn't it be a natural stepping action? I think that some of the cruel acts that those horrible owners do is just....terrible. Sorry if I sound uninformed, its just cause I am :) This is just my opinion based on what I've read from here.
And one question?
What is Big Lick?
 
#7 ·
Gidji, "Performance horses exhibit a very flashy and animated running walk, often referred to as "big lick." They appear to sit on their hind ends, lifting their front end high off the ground. " From: Tennessee walking horse: Definition from Answers.com

In response to roro.

It is common knowledge that many Padded Show Walkers undergo serious abuse in their career. It is a common fault for people to compare the padded show walker and the American Saddlebred in a negative light. The discussion here was intended for the apparent similarities between the TWO breeds, and the vast, gaping differences between them.

By the way, it would not be ironic. It would be hyppocritical to generalize and then get mad over a generalization. Even though it is not either. Irony would be like a strict vegetarian being turned into a vampire.

We were not saying "Oh all saddlebred owners love their pookies." at all. We were saying that just because your friend does not care about her saddlebred was not because of the breed. The breed was not the cause of the neglect. She would likely do that to any horse regardless of breed. When neglect, abuse, or mishandling of horses occurs, breed has less bearing than species. She doesn't care about the horse. Not because of the breed. Neither of us were angry over your statement. We both merely pointed out that the breed does not make the owner. A quarter horse wouldn't make that person take better care of her horse. A $100k Swedish Warmblood wouldn't make her care more about the horse(well it might because money talks). Quite frankly, a person who neglects a horse regardless of breed is the lowest form of life to me.

As for collection. That Swedish WB could never collect and move like a Saddlebred. You stopped reading before you got to the "like a Saddlebred" part. It will move like a SWB. And have at it. That is a non-issue here.

Gaited horses have been around for ages. Roman soldiers rode gaited horses. In Roman times, only peasants rode horses that could only trot. Those horses were referred to as "Torture Horses". You cannot "invent" genetics. If it was not natural for a horse to gait, then we wouldn't have it.

"The Standard Horse Breeds"? Whose standard are you following? The reason there ARE so many breeds out there is because not everyone LIKES the same things. I have friends of all ilk. I have friends who likes grade horses, one who like rockies, one who loves minis, another who lives for QHs, I have a Fresian Friend, a TWH friend, and I have just started talking to someone who works with Icelandics. I have a friend who works for a large TB breeding training facility. And of course I have lots of Saddlebred loving friends. I don't think any less of my other friends for liking what they do. I try to convert them every chance I get, but I never outright insult them for liking something different.
You know, your standard horse breeds should always start with the Arab. Afterall we couldn't have had TBs without the Arab. We also could not have had the American Saddlebred OR the American QH without the TB(and thus Arab). The American Saddler wasn't a recognized breed type until roughly 76 years after the first TBs were introduced to the Colonies. Famous recognized Saddle Horse Cincinatti was by the fastest horse of the time. And thank you Thoroughbreds for giving me the breed I love today. To me personally, the TB is obsolete, as it has been improved to my liking in the American Saddlebred.

This topic wasn't intended for "Saddlebreds vs the World". It was intended for two commonly confused horses and their backgrounds, similiarities, and differences.

Roro, I am very glad that you like what you like. This is a diverse world, and I accept that you like what you do. What you like would be considered "wrong" or "incorrect" in my world, just as how I want my horses to be is "incorrect" in yours. There is nothing wrong with being different. There is no "end all" horse breed for everyone. Else these discussions on personal preference would never occur.
 
#10 ·
In response to roro.

It is common knowledge that many Padded Show Walkers undergo serious abuse in their career. It is a common fault for people to compare the padded show walker and the American Saddlebred in a negative light. The discussion here was intended for the apparent similarities between the TWO breeds, and the vast, gaping differences between them.

By the way, it would not be ironic. It would be hyppocritical to generalize and then get mad over a generalization. Even though it is not either. Irony would be like a strict vegetarian being turned into a vampire.

We were not saying "Oh all saddlebred owners love their pookies." at all. We were saying that just because your friend does not care about her saddlebred was not because of the breed. The breed was not the cause of the neglect. She would likely do that to any horse regardless of breed. When neglect, abuse, or mishandling of horses occurs, breed has less bearing than species. She doesn't care about the horse. Not because of the breed. Neither of us were angry over your statement. We both merely pointed out that the breed does not make the owner. A quarter horse wouldn't make that person take better care of her horse. A $100k Swedish Warmblood wouldn't make her care more about the horse(well it might because money talks). Quite frankly, a person who neglects a horse regardless of breed is the lowest form of life to me.

As for collection. That Swedish WB could never collect and move like a Saddlebred. You stopped reading before you got to the "like a Saddlebred" part. It will move like a SWB. And have at it. That is a non-issue here.

Gaited horses have been around for ages. Roman soldiers rode gaited horses. In Roman times, only peasants rode horses that could only trot. Those horses were referred to as "Torture Horses". You cannot "invent" genetics. If it was not natural for a horse to gait, then we wouldn't have it.

"The Standard Horse Breeds"? Whose standard are you following? The reason there ARE so many breeds out there is because not everyone LIKES the same things. I have friends of all ilk. I have friends who likes grade horses, one who like rockies, one who loves minis, another who lives for QHs, I have a Fresian Friend, a TWH friend, and I have just started talking to someone who works with Icelandics. I have a friend who works for a large TB breeding training facility. And of course I have lots of Saddlebred loving friends. I don't think any less of my other friends for liking what they do. I try to convert them every chance I get, but I never outright insult them for liking something different.
You know, your standard horse breeds should always start with the Arab. Afterall we couldn't have had TBs without the Arab. We also could not have had the American Saddlebred OR the American QH without the TB(and thus Arab). The American Saddler wasn't a recognized breed type until roughly 76 years after the first TBs were introduced to the Colonies. Famous recognized Saddle Horse Cincinatti was by the fastest horse of the time. And thank you Thoroughbreds for giving me the breed I love today. To me personally, the TB is obsolete, as it has been improved to my liking in the American Saddlebred.

This topic wasn't intended for "Saddlebreds vs the World". It was intended for two commonly confused horses and their backgrounds, similiarities, and differences.

Roro, I am very glad that you like what you like. This is a diverse world, and I accept that you like what you do. What you like would be considered "wrong" or "incorrect" in my world, just as how I want my horses to be is "incorrect" in yours. There is nothing wrong with being different. There is no "end all" horse breed for everyone. Else these discussions on personal preference would never occur.

Well said : ]
 
#8 ·
I personaily LOVE the saddlebred breed and own a saddlebred cross. They have to be one of the most versital breeds (in my opinion) and as for the show ring look so beautiful and natural as for the abuse and mishandleing I'm sure there is a lot of it as there is in every breed and you also have to look at the politics in just about every breed type shows (its rediculious) I myself don't show I'm more of an endurance rider myself and just go to local hunter paces that are pretty much for fun but I have been to a few show and the walkers just don't fasinate me as the saddlers. I have been to a few walker show barns and its rediculous what they do to them poor horses really heavy chains are put around their feet and left on for long periods and all the soreing one stallion is now lame from all that they did to him. How can people who suposeably "love" their horses do somethin so painful to them? I know not all walker show people hurt their horses I know a few that show the right way and not sore or mishandle their horses in any way. I'm just saying that you hear about WAY more abuse in the walkin horse shows than you do in the saddlebred shows around here
 
#11 · (Edited)
What I mean is that I find it ironic that you gave your own opinion, which is correct in your eyes but not all, then ASKED for other people's opinions, and then got upset when I gave mine. I gave my opinion on the subject, plain and simple.

ps. I said DUTCH warmblood, not Swedish. They are quite different. If you think it is upsetting when people group saddlebreds and TWHs, then don't group other breeds as well. Maybe we should both read with more care.
 
#13 ·
What I mean is that I find it ironic that you gave your own opinion, which is correct in your eyes but not all, then ASKED for other people's opinions, and then got upset when I gave mine. I gave my opinion on the subject, plain and simple.
Again, that's not what ironic means. And again, I DID NOT get upset about your opinion of Saddlebreds - just your snobby comment about Quarter Horses.

ps. I said DUTCH warmblood, not Swedish. They are quite different. If you think it is upsetting when people group saddlebreds and TWHs, then don't group other breeds as well. Maybe we should both read with more care.
TOTALLY not the same thing. In one instance, people are lumping together two breeds that they know are different. In the other instance, she made a mistake and called the horse something he was not. She never said Dutch and Swedish Warmbloods were the same thing. I'm sure it was a mistake.





Looks like another TWH-bashing thread.

Each breed has got there issues. I really wish people would quite putting down the dagum Walking Horse! They aren't the only breed that has issues!
Again, I'm NOT bashing the Walkers themselves, just the abusive things that SOME people do to them. I love flat-shod Walkers. I said several times that other breeds have issues, too. I know they do. Are you really going to deny that Walkers don't have more issues than other breeds? If that were true, they wouldn't have the reputation that they have.


I've read (and seen) plenty about the Saddlebred... So let's just move on shall we? I like that CM is trying to to tell the difference between the two, and I appreciate that; but it is very obvious she is biased.

That I don't like one bit.
I said I wasn't denying that Saddlebreds are sometimes abused, too. Every breed is. I'm still going to say that I think Walkers are abused WAY more than Saddlebreds are, and I think almost everybody will agree with me.


And I'm sure I'll get all kinds of people argueing with me but I'm just truly SICK of the whole 'OMG!!!!! TWHs are SOOO abused!!!!' crap. Ok, so perhaps they are, but there are many breeds and horses that get abused as well. I can name 3 breeds off the top of my head.
I already said that EVERY horse breed has its abusers. I'm repeating myself now, but I still think Walkers are near, if not at, the top of the abuse list.


And also it's very obvious OP hasn't looked at Walking horse chains nowadays. They have booted chains, meaning the boot is attached to the chain so it won't hit the horse, light chains not intended for weight, fleeced chains, etc. Saddlebreds aren't the only ones that use the nice ones.
I have seen them, and I still see abusive chains. NOWHERE did I say that all Walking horse people use abusive chains on their horses. I said SOME do. You can deny that, but I've seen it with my own eyes. I've been to a countless number of week-long Saddlebred shows and I've NEVER seen any sort of leg or hoof abuse.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Looks like another TWH-bashing thread.

Each breed has got there issues. I really wish people would quite putting down the dagum Walking Horse! They aren't the only breed that has issues!

I've read (and seen) plenty about the Saddlebred... So let's just move on shall we? I like that CM is trying to to tell the difference between the two, and I appreciate that; but it is very obvious she is biased.

That I don't like one bit.

And I'm sure I'll get all kinds of people argueing with me but I'm just truly SICK of the whole 'OMG!!!!! TWHs are SOOO abused!!!!' crap. Ok, so perhaps they are, but there are many breeds and horses that get abused as well. I can name 3 breeds off the top of my head.

And also it's very obvious OP hasn't looked at Walking horse chains nowadays. They have booted chains, meaning the boot is attached to the chain so it won't hit the horse, light chains not intended for weight, fleeced chains, etc. Saddlebreds aren't the only ones that use the nice ones.

I'm going to get carried away if I go too much further. Everything I said was a fact.
 
#14 · (Edited)
^ You said so yourself they used chains on Saddlebreds. Using chains is not always abuse. Some people abuse it, which has given chains altogether a bad name. Not all TWH people abuse chains either.

I've seen and heard what some people do to Saddlebreds, and so I put them in the same abused pool. The shows you hang around may be horse-friendly shows and I wish every show was that way.

But people happen.

Are you really going to deny that Walkers don't have more issues than other breeds?
Depends on what breed.
 
#15 ·
^ You said so yourself they used chains on Saddlebreds. Using chains is not always abuse. Some people abuse it, which has given chains altogether a bad name. Not all TWH people abuse chains either.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by "abusive chains." I meant chains that cause pain as opposed to chains that don't. I don't think all chains are abusive.

And for the millionth time, I know not all Walker people abuse chains. I never said they did...
 
#16 ·
Well, you make Saddlebreds sound like saints...

We are all biased people. There's no way we can shove each other's [beliefs] down out throats. So let's just say...

That TWHs can quite being harped on (not necessarilly saying you are).
 
#17 ·
I apologise that I called a Dutch Warmblood, a Swedish Warmblood. Now for the sake of knowledge, I am considering starting a thread to explain to me the differences, because I honestly don't know the difference, other than name. To me they look the same, move the same and do the same job... isn't that what we are trying to discuss here with two similarly confused breeds? I am uneducated in the differences between Warmbloods.

Sunny, I am sorry that you feel we are bashing TWH. The only TWH I know is a cool cool horse. He is the ugliest yellow horse in the world(ask his owner LOL) but his attitude and temperament makes him one of the most beautiful horses in the world.
 
#22 ·
Exactly. People who have a lack of knowledge of the gaiting industry and saddlebreds/TWHs are likely to group the breeds together, and people like you who have a lack of knowledge of the dressage/jumping and WB breeds are likely to group them together. There is a difference, especially with the origins of each breed. SWBs and DWBs are probably about as similar to me as TWH and saddlebreds are to you.
 
#19 ·
It's fine it's fine. No worries.

I probably overreacted a bit as well ;)

I just get so tired of people in general (not you guys) always on the Walking horse's case. The gov't is on it; fineing sorers so they will not continue the practice.

People are trying to 'fix' the Walking horse industry. It's just a long process because many have the soring images stuck in their heads and can't get over that. AND the squatters continue the practice.

I don't agree with 90% of the practices; but that 10% has a lot to offer.
 
#24 ·
^ I agree, except there are more than 10 gaited breeds ;)
 
#26 ·
As far as I know there's about 10..xD But I don't know all of them :3 I just know that from the start, all horses, pretty much, were gaited. So gaiting as such isn't artificial.

Then we could discuss how humans interfere with the gait and try to ''make it better''..but that's another story and that goes for pretty much everything and all gaits in the horseworld, doesn't it?

yup, that's what I've always learnt.. I was actually gonna say something, but I read it such a long time ago that I was gonna check some of my referances first.
Hehe..:P
 
#33 ·
LoL, Clouds, I know you are not anti-walker...but I have to admit that when I read your initial post I bristled up a little. All that having been cleared up, I just want to put a couple videos in to show why I think walkers are special...

The first is a video of a quarter horse trotting. The second is a barefoot TWH (not)trotting - i.e., running walk.

AND, let it be made really clear that I am NOT anti-quarter horse. :) I actually just bought one, and she is AWESOME. I love her and my walker both. Actually, I ride them both about equally. But where the QH has some really strong points, Annie (the TWH) does too...lol, namely the fact that I can sit on her and not work. Some people complain about this in regard to walkers, but being a fairly lazy person, I enjoy it. :lol:

What I'm getting at here is a very rudimentary "shout out" to the absolute natural smoothness of a barefoot walker. I think it's one of the coolest things ever. But yes, when you compare it to a Saddlebred (which happens to be one of my "dream breeds" to own), the gait is less flashy, when comparing the natural forms of the breeds.

Anyways, on to the vids...my point here, to non-gaited people, is to watch how much work (or NOT work) the rider does on each horse...it's subtle, but you can certainly see it. And that, I guess, is what I'm getting at...in my opinion, a TWH's true talent lies in its subtle differences, not in how flashy (a.k.a. silly) it looks with giant pads on.



 
#34 ·
LoL, Clouds, I know you are not anti-walker...but I have to admit that when I read your initial post I bristled up a little. All that having been cleared up, I just want to put a couple videos in to show why I think walkers are special...

The first is a video of a quarter horse trotting. The second is a barefoot TWH (not)trotting - i.e., running walk.

AND, let it be made really clear that I am NOT anti-quarter horse. :) I actually just bought one, and she is AWESOME. I love her and my walker both. Actually, I ride them both about equally. But where the QH has some really strong points, Annie (the TWH) does too...lol, namely the fact that I can sit on her and not work. Some people complain about this in regard to walkers, but being a fairly lazy person, I enjoy it. :lol:

What I'm getting at here is a very rudimentary "shout out" to the absolute natural smoothness of a barefoot walker. I think it's one of the coolest things ever. But yes, when you compare it to a Saddlebred (which happens to be one of my "dream breeds" to own), the gait is less flashy, when comparing the natural forms of the breeds.

Anyways, on to the vids...my point here, to non-gaited people, is to watch how much work (or NOT work) the rider does on each horse...it's subtle, but you can certainly see it. And that, I guess, is what I'm getting at...in my opinion, a TWH's true talent lies in its subtle differences, not in how flashy (a.k.a. silly) it looks with giant pads on.

YouTube - Big Red- 16h Appendix Quarter Horse Trotting

YouTube - All Natural Tennessee Walking Horse Gelding BAREFOOT


I agree that they are special! I almost bought one instead of my MFT. I meant to show the differences between the flashy showhorse Saddlebreds and the flashy showhorse Walkers. Not barefoot or light shod Saddlebreds vs. barefoot or light shod Walkers.
 
#35 ·
Right, right...gotcha. Just didn't want people to think (and many DO) that all or even most TWH's are shod or shown that way. I personally am not a fan, to put it nicely. :? I think it looks silly, corrupts the smoothness of the gait...lol, but I am ranting and I don't want to usurp your original purpose here. Like I said, I don't think you're anti-walker at all. :D
 
#36 ·
I'm no horse expert by any means (my husband and I have gotten our two horses within the last year and use them for pleasure riding on our property and trail riding)...but from what little experience I have, I do know that at least in the case of our TWH that he was abused to some extent.

The people that we purchased him from had only had him 2 days, and while he was (and continues to be) very mannerable, friendly, and good in the saddle, he was pretty malnourished. Not emaciated, but certainly not healthy.

It has taken a great deal of time for Storm to pick up weight, and he is still a bit light, but has come quite a long way from where he was.

I don't know why the original owner neglected him (and to be honest, I don't know what sort of neglect went on...aside from being underweight and needing his shots, tempermentally you could not ask for a better horse) and Storm is able to be registered with the TWHA and has papers.

I honestly don't know what would possess anyone to abuse a horse though---regardless of their breed or their lineage or whether or not they have papers or not.

Aside from that, however, I really can't say a bad word about my horse. I don't have a Saddlebred, so I can't compare there, but honestly he is very well rounded (except for in the belly area...but we're working on that! lol)
 
#37 ·
Peaceful, I think that may be a TWH thing. :) My mare has clearly never had a harsh hand laid on her (in fact, she's a little spoiled :) but when I got her she was looking pretty bad, IMO. I know walkers and Saddlebreds both have a more slender build, so maybe that's it? But I have seen more skinny walkers than Saddlebreds for sure. But TWH's are more prominent where I live than Saddlebreds, so that might be why I've seen it more often.
 
#42 ·
Peaceful, I think that may be a TWH thing. :) My mare has clearly never had a harsh hand laid on her (in fact, she's a little spoiled :) but when I got her she was looking pretty bad, IMO. I know walkers and Saddlebreds both have a more slender build, so maybe that's it? But I have seen more skinny walkers than Saddlebreds for sure. But TWH's are more prominent where I live than Saddlebreds, so that might be why I've seen it more often.
Yeah I know that Storm will never have the build of our QH, Sarge (who is a big, muscled tank of a horse! :-p ) but even taking into consideration the lean build, he was quite underweight when we got him. Ribs were showing like crazy, especially when he inhaled deeply.

Now he is much better, but you can just still see a faint outline of his ribs and he could use a tad more girth through his middle to even him out.

His mane and coat have gotten so much glossier in the six-ish months that we've had him, and when my husband went out and did a good grooming on him the other day, I tell you that horse's coat shined like the sun! He's looking so beautiful now!

But someone had really done a number on him weight-wise and pretty much neglected him before we got him. We were told this by the owners we got both of our horses from who had just picked him up at an auction as a rescue, but as I said, his personality is superb and we felt great about adopting him and getting him where he should be. :wink:
 
#38 ·
Here is a picture of a young Saddlebred naturally carrying their head high and lifting their legs high. It looks suspiciously similar to the Saddlebreds in the show ring. I have yet to see a picture of a young, untouched Walker that looks anything like a padded Walker in the show ring. That alone should tell you how much more man-made and unnatural the Walkers are.

Sorry if this has been asked already, but since as you pointed out this colt/filly has a great natural stride, why would you then trim their toes long or put pads/chains on them when they grow up? I ask because I've never seen a picture of a saddlebred with normal length toes. I'm an Icelandic fan myself. Traditional Icelandic riding is abusive in some ways (mostly different ways from other gaited breeds), but the one thing they don't do is put extra equipment on horses that don't need it, even when showing. They advertise those horses as naturally gaited and charge more for them. The most prized horses are the ones that will tolt on a loose rein. My point is that at least they believe mechanically enhancing the gait is a last resort. Saddlebred (and Walker) fans seem to use mechanical enhancements by default.

I can understand liking the breed, because what appeals to us in a horse is not always a conscious thing. But just because you like saddlebreds doesn't mean you need to use traditional training methods on them and support those methods by participating in shows. Same thing for Walker people.
 
#43 · (Edited)
What "traditional" training methods do you mean?

Long toes? Saddlebreds have very different conformation when compared to most other breeds. Keeping their toe longer than other breeds does nothing to enhance their gait - it's just how they have to be trimmed because of the way they're built and the way they naturally move (which is also completely different).

Pads? Look again at the pictures I put in my first post. The Walker has the pads that you automatically think of when you hear the word. The Saddlebred has TINY ones on. The pads Saddlebreds wear are the same as the pads we put on horses with bad feet to help cushion them. How could that possibly be inhumane?

Chains? Again, the chains used by ALL Saddlebreds are extremely light and not used to cause pain. They are used because they help the horse lift his legs higher because he feels like he wants to step out of the chain. They also help him keep his trot balanced. I tried to find a picture of the chains Saddlebreds wear, but I couldn't find one. But they are so light that when compared to the size of the horse, it would be like you wearing a bracelet.

Stretchies? Stretchies are used to build muscle - just like side reins. It's just like lifting weights in the gym. If they are too tight, they break. They are not strong enough to hinder the horse's movement - they just make it a little harder for them.

Here is part of an article about Saddlebreds:

"While the arena in which the horse works is filled with soft cedar shavings and dragged repeatedly with a harrow to insure evenly soft footing, we discuss additional athletic equipment that helps the development of the show horse. The use of developers or stretchers is common in many training barns. Developers consist of two leather straps, covered with thick dense fleece. These padded straps buckle loosely around each front pastern, but not too loose as to fall up past the ankle, or down beneath the heel. These padded straps have a large ring on each, from which rubber tubing, cut to custom size may be snapped. Called "stretchers," because the tubing stretches easily with the horse's motion at the trot, this body building equipment helps the horse to develop his shoulder muscles, thereby freeing his motion in front, and aiding in his naturally even timing. Although stretchers or developers are not applied to the hind legs, the hind legs follow suit and timing is greatly helped behind as well. Developers are exactly like those used by human body builders and Olympic and professional boxers, as well as cross-country athletes. How does the horse feel about resistance, training? Just watch. The colt will either use them or not use them.

Developers offer low-impact resistance training to the equine athlete. The horse stretches them if he so desires, helping to develop muscle tone in his shoulders.

Developers don't force the legs to do anything. They only come into use if the colt chooses to use them. Most times, the colt will playfully react to this new toy, looking down at them, snorting and waving his tail, he stretches the tubing to the max. This is an important early indication of the colt's show horse desires. Sometimes a colt will not use the stretchers at all; rather he will simply trot around straight legged, applying no pressure to the rubber tubing. This colt simply does not reflect the characteristics of the breed. He does not have the athletic ability, nor probably the inclination to be a show horse. He is not a "bad" horse; he is simply not cut out to be a show horse, and no amount of developing is going to force him to be one. This type of colt, therefore, finds another career. While he is probably very attractive and kind, he makes a wonderful pleasure riding horse. For this reason of determining talent and desire from the lack of, developers are a vital aid."

Tail setting:

"Tail setting does NOT involve any "breaking" of bone, nor is any ligament cut, as is erroneously assumed. Rather this small lateral muscle is cut, making an incision so small that it looks like a pin hole. While a half-hour is commonly allowed for local anesthesia to take effect, the process of "tail cutting" only takes a few moments. The result is a freed-up tail, which can still move in any and all directions, but is no longer pinned down to the buttocks. Retired horses and broodmares in pasture that have had their tails cut still have full use of their tails and are able to swish a fly away at their choosing. While this process of cutting is extremely minimal, its misconceptions are dramatized by the aesthetic effect that a long, well cared-for tail has in the show ring. Many show horses wear a "tail set", a loose and relaxed fitting light harness which lays on the horse without any pressure put on him anywhere. While the set looks complicated to the newcomer, it is designed not to put pressure on any part of the horse, but merely to keep the crupper in place. The crupper, made of light aluminum, literally sets under the horse's tail, perpendicularly out from the hindquarters, and never straight up. Well padded, the set is removed every day along with the horse's sheet, the horse himself thinking no more of his set than he does of his favorite blanket. It's all just his nightgown to him. And, as we stated before, he's completely capable of telling us when he doesn't like something..."

Honestly, I think docking tails is way more inhumane than cutting them the way Saddlebreds (and Walkers?) do. Neither one causes any pain whatsoever and both can still move their tail in any direction (except the docked tail can't move straight up like the Saddlebreds), but the Saddlebred can swish flies and the horse with the docked tail can't.



Is there anything else about Saddlebreds you think is abusive? Do you still think any of the things I named are abusive?

Oh, and that is all what SOME Walker people do as well.... Not just Saddlebred people.
 
#39 ·
It is great that we all enjoy differences - if we all wanted the same thing, the competition would be tremendous. I enjoy a horse that is smooth, fast and a pleasure to rode. I love my Kentucky Mountain Horse as I know that others love their own breeds. The important factor for an amateur is that we can get a fun smooth gait without artificial aides. As far as the show professionals they will always push performance which is fine as long as they do so without abuse - after all it is entertainment.
 
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