Saddlebreds vs. Walkers - Page 13
 
 

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Saddlebreds vs. Walkers

This is a discussion on Saddlebreds vs. Walkers within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Defending big lick walkers
  • Which horse is batter a walker r a saddlebred

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    12-06-2011, 10:49 AM
  #121
Weanling
I didn't go through and read every post on here, but Mistique, what was the point of this post if you didn't want to get a reaction or contradictory postings on a Saddlebreds bs Walkers thread? I find this is a generalization and you're bound to get 'angry' posts back, or defensive ones for that matter (even if you say you're acknowledging everyone is not painted with the same brush) ... the topic is just too broad. I find it to be more opinion based than educational and more rehtorically based than discussion based. Not to say you don't have some good points -but in the end this is not really an objective post.

You're definitely entitled to your own opinion and to state it -I wont argue it because that is yours to have, but saying to people not to defend walkers, isn't going to happen in a gaited horse forum on a post about the brutality of Walking Horses and the superior handling of Saddlebreds. I am just having difficulty wrapping my head around where you wanted the discussion to go...

I think both breeds are beautiful when they are handled properly, not in argument really, but more just wondering where you were going with this is all. This topic has been brought up so many times that people just go to the same argument easily...
     
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    12-06-2011, 12:11 PM
  #122
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerize    
I am never saying that saddlebred people have clean hands totally, Im saying the training is more punnishing for walkers and abusive at shows, however breeds cannot be better than another, because each breed was bred for something, walkers for flashy smooth spin offs of the saddlebred and saddlebreds as a well working elegant riding horse for the wealthy and a status symbol for those who could buy one. Just like TBs are made for running, warmbloods for jumping, arabs for distance, and QHs for reliability and sprints. So you can't compare breed to breed only training. But no, there is NO breed that I've seen that has the trainers equal to angels and never doing a harmful or illegal thing it happens, I will be the first to say drugs are used on all gaited breeds to calm them but there are differences in walkers and saddlebred's training, besides when it comes down to it the saddlebred tends to prove it's case when you see a foal like Pistolero of Carvelle who bear stunning action like their parents. But walkers it is rare to find a foal moving like a 3 yr old.
This is the classic defense of the Sore Lick advocates: we may be bad, but we're not as bad as :break__Enter name of breed/group/activity to be disparaged__break:.

I've got gaited horses. I've shown them. I've never, as in NEVER, had to use any illegal substances or practices or procedures for any purpose whatsoever. So I take a deep and personal offense at your suggestions.

In the past I've owned a couple of Saddlebreds (one a rescue, one a Racking Horse). Based upon my experiences they are not my "cup of tea." Others may find them just dandy.

Of course the Saddlebred of today is not the Saddlebred that contributed to the development of the Walker more than 100 years ago. It is more a purpose-bred animal, and that narrow purpose is the show ring. When any breed gets to that "narrow purpose" level, you'll have problems. The examples are legion (like Halter QHs, racing TBs, inbred Peruvians, Big Lick Walkers, etc.).

To set a "Walker vs. Saddlebred" model is to create a false dichotomy. To allow that the Walker would not be what it is without Saddlebred influence is to tell a truth, but a very limited truth.

So maybe letting the whole idea drop might be a Good Thing.

G.
     
    12-06-2011, 12:41 PM
  #123
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerize    
I am never saying that saddlebred people have clean hands totally, Im saying the training is more punnishing for walkers and abusive at shows, however breeds cannot be better than another, because each breed was bred for something, walkers for flashy smooth spin offs of the saddlebred and saddlebreds as a well working elegant riding horse for the wealthy and a status symbol for those who could buy one. Just like TBs are made for running, warmbloods for jumping, arabs for distance, and QHs for reliability and sprints. So you can't compare breed to breed only training. But no, there is NO breed that I've seen that has the trainers equal to angels and never doing a harmful or illegal thing it happens, I will be the first to say drugs are used on all gaited breeds to calm them but there are differences in walkers and saddlebred's training, besides when it comes down to it the saddlebred tends to prove it's case when you see a foal like Pistolero of Carvelle who bear stunning action like their parents. But walkers it is rare to find a foal moving like a 3 yr old.
Hey, come to Canada, natural talent is in abundance in our show rings! Gimmick free! My 3 yr old mare clacks her teeth at a run walk barefoot...not even the slightest weight/padding on her shoes
     
    12-06-2011, 01:07 PM
  #124
Trained
How about we all (here) agree that no matter what our choice of breed, we won't abuse them? =D
I find the photos from the show ring are training that exaggerates natural movement. As an owner with a history of owning TWH's and TWH crosses, I can tell you that they naturally drop their hindquarters and kinda get on a RR track when you set them down a trail at a running walk. But they don't reach forward and clip the back of their front hooves. I personally don't see the value of this exaggerated movement, since it really isn't a form of Dressage. I wouldn't call it abuse, but I believe that a horse shouldn't be asked to move in a way that you would not see when they are turned out. Stallions display periodically by arching their necks and pracing and the like, and people like to train their horses to duplicate this kind of movement. I'm planning on Dressaging my QH bc I have seen him numerous times in the pasture show me a beautiful floating trot, all collected, and I'd like to ride him doing just that. I have never seen any of TWH's or crosses move like the typical TWH showhorse does.
It kinda reminds me of the breeding which has produced crippled GS dogs, that no longer move naturally. These are just MHO's. If anything is to change it is the judging which continues to accept abuse and bad treatment by awarding it with ribbons.
Just FYI, somebody beat up our horse, "Merry Boy's Hart."


DH was riding in our pasture one a nice dry day, the horse tripped, DH tumbled off, and "Trogdor" (his stable name) took off to the other end of the pasture as if he expected a good beating.
I don't know a thing about Saddlebred's or their movements, so I won't comment.
     
    12-06-2011, 01:22 PM
  #125
Trained
DH doesn't beat our horses. His favorite horse, "Tyke", would have stopped and looked at him funny if he fell off of hiim.
Forgot to add that "Trogdor" naturally and often parked out for us. I don't think that he would have done that had he not been a showhorse at some point of his career. Also, we had to break him of rushing backwards out of the trailer--I'm sure he spent a great deal of time being trailered bc I never had a horse that would load willingly, but backpedal so fast.
Unfortunately, he died of Cushing's diesease. I didn't know anything about it at the time, but he was predisposed to carrying a lot of weight. My Arab, "Corporal", was a hard keeper, so I kept my manger in my shelter full always, and Trogdor helped himself, too.
     
    12-06-2011, 03:01 PM
  #126
Trained




1st pic: Skippy, cremello QH 2 yr old Colt playing with Hillbilly Harley DCA, yearling Saddlebred colt by RA Hot Every Night X LA Peppermint Patti

2nd pic: TR Supergirl aka Gigi, 1/2 Arabian, 1/2 Saddlebred mare by HF Mister Chips+ X Leatherwood's Indigo, a Calloway's Blue Norther daughter.

3rd pic: LA Peppermint Patti, 3/4 Saddlebred mare by Atomic Deluxe.

Never met a Walker, never seen a walker in the flesh so I have nothing to say about them. But I SURE do LOVE me some Saddlebreds! As you can see in the pics, these horses are not even shod. They just move nicely and are fun to ride, and for me that's plenty!
     
    12-06-2011, 03:07 PM
  #127
Weanling
I took saddleseat lessons before I realized I would never be able to afford the shows/my own show horse and I just bought a trail horse. But from the time I rode them I can say that I fell in love with Saddlebreds! They are SOOO much fun and actually very sweet and not crazy like some people make them out to be. I too have never seen these horses abused. They are SPOILED!!! Their performances show just how healthy and well cared for they are. They wouldn't be able to do that if they were hurting. Of course there's always going to be some bad people in the bunch but from my experience it was a blast with Saddlebreds. Sorry no experience with TWH.
     
    12-06-2011, 03:26 PM
  #128
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudsMystique    
Haha, I totally agree with this. People get SO MAD whenever anyone says ANYTHING bad about the TWH industry. I make sure to ALWAYS say that I don't think all TWH people abuse their horses... whenever I say anything about TWHs. So if you know that I think that, and you don't abuse your horse, why are you offended?!
As if you didnt get mad when posters suggested Saddlebreds are abused?
Part of your arguements are valid, but you are far from objective! From reading your posts, no abuse goes down in Saddlebred breeds. Hate to break it to you, but there is abuse in every breed, and this thread, is doing nothing but encouraging the breed stereotypes.

I thought you wanted an "educational" thread, and this is far from it. I have not seen you post one thing that is derogatory to Saddlebreds, yet you constantly post derogatory statements about Walkers.

Heck yes I am going to stand up for my breed, because I am surrounded by responsible breeders who have to deal with people like you! There are far more then just big lick walkers. Come up to Alberta and meet our show crowd. Not a single horse wears chains or pads, and their gaits are NATURAL, born walking. Now I know your horses wear chains to enhance their gait! Mine sure don't!
     
    12-08-2011, 03:40 PM
  #129
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstinson    
I didn't go through and read every post on here, but Mistique, what was the point of this post if you didn't want to get a reaction or contradictory postings on a Saddlebreds bs Walkers thread? I find this is a generalization and you're bound to get 'angry' posts back, or defensive ones for that matter (even if you say you're acknowledging everyone is not painted with the same brush) ... the topic is just too broad. I find it to be more opinion based than educational and more rehtorically based than discussion based. Not to say you don't have some good points -but in the end this is not really an objective post.

You're definitely entitled to your own opinion and to state it -I wont argue it because that is yours to have, but saying to people not to defend walkers, isn't going to happen in a gaited horse forum on a post about the brutality of Walking Horses and the superior handling of Saddlebreds. I am just having difficulty wrapping my head around where you wanted the discussion to go...

I think both breeds are beautiful when they are handled properly, not in argument really, but more just wondering where you were going with this is all. This topic has been brought up so many times that people just go to the same argument easily...
I suppose I'm saying "we're bad, but not as bad," but there's a lot more to it than that. It's A) we're just as bad as most other disciplines, in that we use training methods to exaggerate our horses' natural abilities... and B) please stop confusing us with the people that took some of our methods and used them to change a horse more dramatically than you will ever see in any other discipline just because we ride in the same saddle.

I haven't gone back and read the posts either so I don't remember exactly what was said, but I think most of the contradictory posts I received were either from people bashing Saddlebreds (which is totally beside the point), or from people who thought I was bashing ALL Walkers instead of just big licks (which is completely untrue and which I stated several times).
     
    12-08-2011, 11:20 PM
  #130
Weanling
This thread just gave mr a head ache. All great info though.
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