Soring. For it, or against it?

Against it. Reminds me of a circus where animals are made to do horrible things for entertainment. I am will not attend circus's either. And they wonder why the elephants freak out and hurt the trainers, pft!!!

You might find some rebuttals to Roy Exum's editorials in the papers. But judging from the last article Roy wrote the person's writing had violations on their record. Search the newspapers in Tennessee, letters to the editor and such.

Only other place I could tell you to look is state and federal prisons. Person's for it would generally be known as serial killers and psychopaths.

I'll bet there are some "rebuttals" to Roy's words. The hard truth, however, is that the numbers prove to a moral certainty that the "it's just one or two bad apples" defense is completely bogus.

Several years ago I was part of a group that tried to get an initiative onto the agenda of a TWHBEA annual meeting. Our motion was to disqualify any person under current suspension for an HPA violation or any person who had earned three suspensions in their lifetime for HPA violations for either a seat as an officer or executive board member of the TWHBEA. Our motion had to be made prior to the meeting; the TWHBEA functionary refused to accept it. Her action was in clear violation of the TWHBEA Bylaws. Attempts to contact any person in authority in the TWHBEA were fruitless.

That was the year TWHBEA changed their director representation to dilute the power of directors from outside the TWHBEA core areas and increase that of areas where most show horses, and suspended persons, were.

Unless and until the membership of the TWHBEA decides that "enough is enough" and expells the bad actors nothing will change. Since that is about as likely as Ice Water in Hell you won't see anything substantive in the way of reform.

G.

What if someone did say they were for soring? Or some other abusive practice?
Is that person banned from the forum? People have been banned for less, so I was just curious.


Also in the club of "I'm confused by this thread"...

Maybe if you explored the issue from this angle: Why do people sore? What do they feel it accomplishes and why is it desirable above other training methods? And, conversely, why is it wrong? Explain why people are against it, it's detrimental effects, etc.

You're not going to get anyone to admit on a public forum that they are FOR animal abuse. >>

YES! FINALLY I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS!

Soring is the worst example but all showing causes nothing but trouble.

If you take out showing, you take out a huge chunk of the horse industry. You take out the horse industry- and better breeding programs will most likely also get cut short, and less horses will have a job and more will end up at slaughter or abandoned.

Shows give horses function in our new society, they have a purpose and that purpose is entertainment. It's not wrong, it just needs government.

Against obviously.

BUT....

Let me play devil's advocate here.

I guarantee you without exception that any Big Lick owner/exhibitor that shows that way will tell you "WELL, it DOES happen, but MY trainer doesn't believe in it, so he/she doesn't do it" and totally believe it.

Why do they believe it?

Because they are not there the majority of the time horse is being trained, nor when horse is shod, and really and truly believe their Big Lick horse is moving that way because it has "been bred to do that."

They mostly have no idea what is being done, or buy the excuses the trainers give them.

IF they were honest, and really wanted to know? They would be refusing to show Big Licks. Plain and simple.

Same with any other discipline, IF the money leaves the barn, and the judges quit awarding ribbons and placings to horses that have been done this way? IT would STOP overnight.

As long as it is rewarded it will NEVER stop.

And frankly, I've never met a Big Lick owner/exhibitor that had much sense, nor were they anyone that I considered concerned about their animals in any way, shape or form. No matter their social strata either, rich or poor, all of them are tarred with the same brush.

Your definition of better breeding programs and mine are likely not anywhere close to the same.

Anyway, yeah a part of the horse industry will collapse but no where near enough to pull down the whole industry. Most horses never go anywhere near a show ring and do quite well without that function in our new society.

Now to explain my previous comment a bit more. The idea of showing is not a bad thing but human nature will not leave it that way. They want to win for money, ego boost or both. Now add in the judges, most I've met are self important know it alls but there are some good ones out there. These judges have their own ideas on what an animal should be and they reward those who fit into their ideals with wins. People take notice of what is winning and so start breeding for those traits specific traits. This usually leads to changing a breed into something totally new and quite often leads to detrimental changes. It also can lead to morally outrageous training methods to reach that ideal.

In the case of TWH industry both have happened. If you want a good big lick horse you need to start with a pacer. This has led to many lines losing their ability to naturally gait (see my previous statement about breeding programs) though they can still be trained to gait. Next comes the oh so pleasant training methods. Lastly comes standing ovations and accolades for winning that blue ribbon. Isn't showing oh so wonderful?

This doesn't just happen with horses. Pick any animal that is shown, go watch the shows with open eyes and see for yourself. FYI, I've also seen miserable execuses for a breed win just because the "right" person (well known trainer) was the one showing it when up against a bunch of average Joe nobodies.

I saw a big lick video in YouTube, I think the post originally came from this forum.. Anyway,one of the most disgusting thing I have seen.

You will have to do research outside of the forum, no one would say oh it makes my horse have the most unnatural gate I just love it.

I did research on it because I had never seen a twh show I've heard of spring but didn't really know what it was. There are many many many websites with full discriptions of it and the different methods. The more I read the more I was shocked at what people do.... But research someone else... I think you will get 20 pages of people against it for the obvious reasons

Against soring