Teaching non gaited horses to rack? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 03:35 PM
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I don't know how else you thought you would be taken. In that case, all riding is just one big trick. You ask a certain way to get a certain response, whether it is a Walk, Trot, Canter, Rack, or the hula(a "basic" "trick" for real trick horses).

If you are going to teach the rack, the horse has to have the right build, ability, and inclination to do it. If they do not have those, it is unlikely you will get a true rack. You may get a four beat gait of sorts, but it would probably be more of a stepping pace than a true rack.
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post #12 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 03:39 PM
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Actually, many Saddlebred foals will rack and trot. The rack is an easy ground covering gait which allows them to keep up with their mother more easily. I have had a few colts that took several months to become steady and confident in their trot.
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post #13 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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But I still wonder how they can be taught to do it. It's so unatural, they don't move like that under any circumstance.. Only thing that's even simliar is walk, but it should be was more logic for them to trot stressed than to rack or pace if they were 'held back to keep the walk but at the same time cued to go faster,..

Why is everybody talking about saddlebreds? saddlebreds are not ''most horses'' even if you wish them to be ;) Not even icelandics, baskjir, TWH, saddlebreds, that japaneese racking horse, racking/pacing styandies etc all together are ''most horses''. Most horses does not rack, they can't do it becaudse the pace is bred out of them ages ago.

And I'm not interested in teaching my horse to rack, I just wanna know how it's done.
As you see on my avatar, my horse racks all by himself wth no special training to get it ;) (and never sad it's perfect, but it's rack)


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post #14 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 05:12 PM
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Zab- I agree :)

And I am also very interested in how it is taught (and like Zab, my horse does it naturally, I'm just curious)
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post #15 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 05:38 PM
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I never said, "most horses". If I said anything close it would have been "most Saddlebreds".

I think I am the only one talking about Saddlebreds because Saddlebreds are what I know. They are not considered among the "Gaited" Breeds, and yet they are taught to rack. And do it quite well. They are selected to be taught by them showing their inclination and build. Inclination, meaning very lateral in their movements and willing to learn. Baby saddlebreds do rack.

I'm sure a very lateral moving QH could be taught to do it, but they do not have the build to do it well. They would have neither the speed, nor form to execute it truly, the best they could probably achieve would be a gait similar to the stepping pace, which is a slower lateral four beat gait.

I have seen many Saddlebreds being gaited, and know the basics on how it is taught. It is not something I will try to explain on this board. It is something that you need to watch many times, and have it explained to understand.

What about true racking horses? They come by their rack quite naturally.
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post #16 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyDreamer View Post
I don't know how else you thought you would be taken. In that case, all riding is just one big trick. You ask a certain way to get a certain response, whether it is a Walk, Trot, Canter, Rack, or the hula(a "basic" "trick" for real trick horses).
True, what is your point?

You taught your horse to do something that it may have the ability to do but does not do it until it is cued to do so. That is a trick. Teaching your horse to bow may have components of a natural act; having your horse rear on command may have components of a natural act; laying a horse down; the Piaff; etc., may have components of a natural act but the moment that is done for no affect except that the trainer cued it to do so, it is a "trick".

That is the point of my previous statement. I'm not suggesting that every horse can be taught to do everything but some horses will learn to do many things that it may not normally do. As Zep asked, she has seen horses that rack that are not "racking horses". Can it be taught, I think the answer is "yes". How would you go about it? I don't know but I believe it not only can be but is done.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

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post #17 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 07:04 PM
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Actually, from a breed that I know well that are trained to perform the gaits, most the foals actually do rack. The rack is a ground covering gait that helps them keep up with their longer strided mothers. The gait wasn't just conjured out of nothing. It wasn't people just saying, Hey look what my horse can do. They must have some natural genetic ability, and yes, they can and will do it naturally on their own with no help from us.

For a horse with absolutely NO genetic ability to be able to perform it, you would need to assess the build and natural movement of the horse to know if he would be best suited to learn. Most non gaited horses are not built to be able to do it. A horse that walks more diagonally will be less inclined to learn than a horse that walks more laterally. A horse with a naturally low neck and head will be less able to perform it than a horse who's neck sit a little higher up.

How do you do it? It is very hard to describe. You would need to see it done. Could it be done to a horse with no genetic ability? Possibly, not too likely. It depends on how good you are and how well the horse is suited to it.
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 08:38 PM
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I immediately thought of this:

Raseyn (Skowronek x Rayya)
*Raseyn Page 2




Rabiyas (Rahas x Rabiyat)
Arieana Arabians - Heritage Notebook: R (Rabiyas)


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post #19 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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LadyDreamer:
I thought your ''I've seen saddlebred foals rack in the pasture'' was a respond to the "But racking is a gait most horses today can't, or arn't supposed to be able to, do. You see icelandics pacing and racking in the pasture, but you don't see a swedish warmblood doing it, and as far as I know, you don't see arabians doing it." I wrote in my previous post.

Not to offend you, but the thread is about teaching horses with no rack in their blood to rack, so if saddlebred foals rack or not isn't interesting (in this thread at least, I'd be happy to hear more about gaited saddlebreds and how to get the rack in horses with some ability to rack too, just not in this very thread :) ) Or maybe it is afterall, it just confused me since I thought you were misunderstanding something I had said.. If you had talked about arabians racking as foals it would be more in the lines with the thread, as they're used as an example of ''non-racking'' racking horses. Or do you think it's the same with them? That some of them do it naturally even tho I've never heard f it?

I appreciate all your thoughts and posts, even if you don't seem to have the answer to my question either.. :/ Anyway, it's interesting to read, but as I thought you were responding to what I wrote earlier, I felt like ''wth is all the saddlebred talk, I was talking about non-gaited horses!'' ;)

Since noone else seem to know how they managed to teach those arabians to rack, I guess it's ok to just keep talking about racking horses and teaching half racking horses to rack etc :P

But I don't really see the ''true'' and not true rack thingy here.. don't you just have a word for all gaits like rack? :/ I'm so getting to like the word tölt better.. I mean.. Crow is racking, kinda.. some of it is definetly a four beat gait, it's very much like walk but with a different beat/rythm in it, definetly not walk when you sit there.. and three legs on the ground at least almost all of the time. Little faster than walk but not much.
When we speed up, it gets different.. it can be a smooth steppng pace. But it can also be a more or less pacy rack, but still not with only one hoof on the ground (at least as far as I've noticed) but two. Definetly not real pace, nor piggy pace, but.. a pacey 4 beat, lateral gait. I refuse to think it's bad for him (I can feel how well he lifts his back and carry in it) and I refuse to say it's just a bad, unpure/disturbed gait because he has a too good balance, steady beat and as I said he carries and quite often collects naturally in it.
But frankly, I have no clue what to call it since it's not ''pure'' enough to be rack.. and I don't know anything else that works either...


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post #20 of 36 Old 12-29-2008, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Supermane; very interesting.. I know that there can be born one ''special'' horse in any breed that can rack or pace, but I just think there where too many different arabians in that video racking, as it's not a gaited horse in that way.. but maybe it is like with the saddlebreds? Some does it but it's not well known?
Tho I've had some contact with arabiand and never, ever heard of it, but I've heard quite a lot about the saddlebreds.. :/


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