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what bit for my TWH

This is a discussion on what bit for my TWH within the Gaited Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category

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        08-04-2013, 08:56 PM
      #11
    Weanling
    Over the years we've probably started 20 or so Walkers and a dozen or so Marchadors. We've never, as in NEVER, used a twisted wire bit (single or double). Never saw the need to us that much power on a young horse.

    The power is transmitted by the level of contact between the bit and flesh of bars. A large, smooth surfact transfers relatively little pressure; the twisted wire, even those of relatively large diameter, transmit many more "pressure points" to the flesh. This is the reason for it's power.

    Twists can have their place in a training regime, but not with youngsters except under the most extraordinary of circumstances. It is conceivable that with an adult horse with some issues they can be a "bridge." With youngsters while they will cut the time it takes for a youngster to respond to the hand they also begin the process of creating a "hard mouth."

    G.
    Gaited07, smrobs and 2BigReds like this.
         
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        08-04-2013, 09:03 PM
      #12
    Started
    Completely bit less for my mares, and they are comfortable, compliant, and respond well to the cues given - it's a simple and wonderful way to ride :)
         
        08-04-2013, 11:27 PM
      #13
    Banned
    Aint nothin wrong with a twisted wire any bit- they are for softening a horses mouth not 'more power-- leverage bits aint for 'more power' theyre for a horse needing more from a bit than single reining and stopping, lol.

    Op for gaited a mullen or low port curb bit works just fine- just something simple.

    Your horse aint hard in the mouth and it aint a harsh bit- id like to see a double twisted wire than a big ol sharp slow twist.. aint a bad bit- wouldnt use it for every day riding or gait learnings though.

    to add- a snaffle bit is a 'strong bit' in hard hands- someone with soft hands can ride in a tom thumb and have a happy mouth horse.
         
        08-04-2013, 11:58 PM
      #14
    Showing
    Toto, I agree that twisted bits have their place (though never with shanks, IMHO that’s just way too much overkill), but not on a greenie just learning what a bit is. Even the person with the softest hands sometimes has to get ahold of a green horse either for their own safety or the horse’s. A twisted bit in that instance acts like a sawblade and will slice the crap out of a horse. I’ve seen that more times than I care to remember on horses being ridden by idiots who thought they knew what they were doing…folks that believed a horse wasn’t learning if they weren’t bleeding somewhere.

    I’ve got a double twisted snaffle in my tack room. It came to me on a set of used harness so I got it out and played with it just too see what it was like and what the action was like. I held it in my hands and pulled around on it the way it would be pulled on if it were in a horse’s mouth. I can tell you, it freaking hurt. It pinched the crap out of my hand and made it feel like it was in a vice grip, and that was just lightly pulling on it. My hands are tough from living on a horse farm and it still hurt that much with just a little pressure, I can only imagine how much it would hurt on a horse’s sensitive mouth, especially if ridden on any sort of contact at all.

    But, again, I suppose it’s just the differences in the world we live in. Where I’m from, a bit like this with shanks that long and reins that tight would get you shunned by most of the good cowboy crowd.




    Around here, the horses that are prized are the ones that you never have to pull the reins tight, the horses that can and will maintain body carriage themselves instead of needing to be "pulled" into it.

    I also understand that some disciplines/breeds require a horse to work on contact to maintain proper body carriage...but do they really need 10 inch shanks to have enough "contact"?




    Anyway, OP, you never did say if your currently riding in a snaffle or a curb bit. If you let us know, we can offer some suggestions for bits that he might like more.

    Also, have you had his teeth floated? A bad tooth can cause a horse to be busy with the bit as well.
         
        08-05-2013, 08:34 AM
      #15
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by toto    
    Aint nothin wrong with a twisted wire any bit- they are for softening a horses mouth not 'more power-- leverage bits aint for 'more power' theyre for a horse needing more from a bit than single reining and stopping, lol.

    Op for gaited a mullen or low port curb bit works just fine- just something simple.

    Your horse aint hard in the mouth and it aint a harsh bit- id like to see a double twisted wire than a big ol sharp slow twist.. aint a bad bit- wouldnt use it for every day riding or gait learnings though.

    To add- a snaffle bit is a 'strong bit' in hard hands- someone with soft hands can ride in a tom thumb and have a happy mouth horse.
    I agree that hands are the primary determinant of power. BUT, the physics of the thing is that multiple points of contact in the mouth cause mulitple sources of pain being registered by the brain. I don't see "pain enhancement" as being the basis of creating a "soft mouth." I don't care whose hands hold the reins.

    Where you've got a horse that won't respond to the more conventional bits AND proper useage you may need to go this route to "cut through the static so the horse can hear the music." But these are extaordinary situations, not starting greenies (equine or humine).

    It is just false, and demonstrably so, that these devices are not significant pain inducers. Want proof? Put Mullen mouth bit in a set of reins and then put the bit between the thumb and hand (on the fleshy web of skin). Apply some pressure and note the feeling. Now do the same thing with twisted wire. To get the biggest delta use a thin twisted wire (the most common example). A thicker twisted wire will do just as well. Again, note the sensation. Now make your call.

    G.
         
        08-05-2013, 12:21 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    "Where you've got a horse that won't respond to the more conventional bits AND proper useage you may need to go this route to "cut through the static so the horse can hear the music." But these are extaordinary situations, not starting greenies (equine or humine)."

    The idea here is to give the original poster tried and proven ideas she can try. You've never even tried a double twisted wire bit, making a statement like this is not from any experience and contrary to many years of being proven otherwise. Whose to say what's a conventional bit? What is conventional to you, is sure not conventional to our training for the last 50 plus years. Open thy mind and see the roses. You may find the starting of greenies to be a whole lot easier on them.

    IMHO, the snaffle is one of most cruel bits in existence. And, I'm very sure it's one of your more "conventional starting bits". After seeing the difference between starting young horses in either the Mylar, comfort bit, or the double twisted wire, I'd never start a young one in a snaffle.

    "It is just false, and demonstrably so, that these devices are not significant pain inducers."

    That's plain baloney. You said you have never used a double twisted wire bit. YOU have never tried it, don't try and tell this lady they are something they are NOT. Ever bit, bar none, is a pain inducer. No way it can not be. The trick is to make the pain as little as possible and still get the job done. Any bit can be a very significant pain inducer.

    This horse's problem may or may not be the current bit she is using. Nothing at all wrong with trying some others. It is even possible, he'd work better with the high port TWH bit. I've had a few that would work well with that bit, and there was no way we could change, without problems. And that bit is on my "DO NOT USE" list. But if it works, we use it.
         
        08-05-2013, 02:05 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    Bob, you really need to brush up on your English comprehension.

    I NEVER SAID that I'd never used a twisted wire bit. I said I'd never used, nor ever would use, one on a green horse and I'd never give one to a green rider. I explained very clearly my thoughts. They are based upon my experience and simple physics. Remember that the Laws of Physics apply to all of us whehter or not we've ever studied Law or Physics!!!

    Indeed I said that the twisted wire has its place but it is a tiny niche in the training continuum. How do you think I might have figured this out?

    Just because someone disagrees with you about something does not mean that they are ignorant. That's the sort of reasoning one hears in a kindergarten sand box. The disagreement may well stem from significant experience. Or maybe just one use but with a dramatic result.

    Maybe you should ask questions about people's experience vice telling them what their experience is.

    By the way, do you know what a "snaffle bit" is? This line, "IMHO, the snaffle is one of most cruel bits in existence" suggests that you don't. Why not define it for us so that we can assess the value of your experience and advice?

    Yes, I start out youngsters in snaffles. I won't say more until you tell me what you think a snaffle bit might be.

    I told the OP that she may or may not have a problem and what she has to make some decisions about use of the horse before she does anything. So far she's really not responded to that and, until she does, giving specifics is just "shooting in the dark."

    Again, there's no "school answer" to this question. Just more questions.

    G.
         
        08-05-2013, 08:24 PM
      #18
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guilherme    
    Bob, you really need to brush up on your English comprehension.

    I NEVER SAID that I'd never used a twisted wire bit. I said I'd never used, nor ever would use, one on a green horse and I'd never give one to a green rider. I explained very clearly my thoughts. They are based upon my experience and simple physics. Remember that the Laws of Physics apply to all of us whehter or not we've ever studied Law or Physics!!!

    Indeed I said that the twisted wire has its place but it is a tiny niche in the training continuum. How do you think I might have figured this out?

    Just because someone disagrees with you about something does not mean that they are ignorant. That's the sort of reasoning one hears in a kindergarten sand box. The disagreement may well stem from significant experience. Or maybe just one use but with a dramatic result.

    Maybe you should ask questions about people's experience vice telling them what their experience is.

    By the way, do you know what a "snaffle bit" is? This line, "IMHO, the snaffle is one of most cruel bits in existence" suggests that you don't. Why not define it for us so that we can assess the value of your experience and advice?

    Yes, I start out youngsters in snaffles. I won't say more until you tell me what you think a snaffle bit might be.

    I told the OP that she may or may not have a problem and what she has to make some decisions about use of the horse before she does anything. So far she's really not responded to that and, until she does, giving specifics is just "shooting in the dark."

    Again, there's no "school answer" to this question. Just more questions.

    G.
    WELL PUT!



    I'm finding "Bob's" posts quite entertaining with a LOT of WRONG information from a very closed mind of gaited myths and questionable training abilities.

    I agree all bits can be harsh in the wrong hands but a double twist as a starter bit???

    Thank you BOB for making me laugh for the day but I really hope others do not take you seriously on your "advice"
    2BigReds likes this.
         
        08-06-2013, 01:03 AM
      #19
    Foal
    I have been "reeducating" my OTSTB mouth. He came to me a hard puller and had almost zero steering and less brakes. He also has a torn lip (healed it is an old injury most likely from pulling on the track) and a damaged bar and after a little trial and error, ended up with a Pee Wee bit.

    I've fallen in love with this bit as he will gait all day, has stopped hogging down on the bit, and is learning that slight rein pressure doesn't mean a you turn :)

    The bit is also perfect because he does like to mouth his bit, and the pee wee lets him have a pacifier effect, and it has really calmed him down.

    I got mine on Ebay for $15 new, also borrow one if you can, that's what I did and it worked out fantastic!
         
        08-06-2013, 02:24 PM
      #20
    Weanling
    "I'm finding "Bob's" posts quite entertaining with a LOT of WRONG information from a very closed mind of gaited myths and questionable training abilities.

    Thank you BOB for making me laugh for the day but I really hope others do not take you seriously on your "advice" "

    Glad you had your entertainment. Before you claim there's " a LOT of WRONG informartion" you should try it, you might like it.

    Too bad your not person enough to simply disagree. Just because you do it one way, does not mean another way is laughable. I suppose you still think the earth is flat. Columbus was a big joke too.
         

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