Animal Rights Question - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 19 Old 12-04-2008, 07:58 PM
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I don't even know how that question relates to animal rights...well maybe in a stretch. True animal rights activist feel we are cruel for even owning animals. So if you were truely an animal rights activist you wouldn't have a horse to worry about because you would feel they should have the right to live without human influence and fences and cages were cruel.

There is a midground and its called animal welfare. I think that is where most pet owners really fall.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-04-2008, 08:09 PM
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Yeah, few people understand the difference between rights and welfare. Welfare is the more realistic and plausible of the 2. PETA is an animal RIGHTS group .. I had a post on another forum I can dig up if you guys want.

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post #13 of 19 Old 12-05-2008, 01:36 AM Thread Starter
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There is a midground and its called animal welfare. I think that is where most pet owners really fall.
Yup, I'm for animal welfare.

In my class we had to form groups of around 5, and the groups had to decide if they were against animals rights or not. Most people weren't for it, so the teacher made it that at least one group had to be for animal rights so we could have a debate. I ended up being in that group. So even if we didn't believe in it, we still had to defend animal rights in the debate we had. It was kinda awkward. I had to say a lot of stuff that I didn't stand for like how hunting is bad or that we shouldn't test on animals. I kept telling people later, "I like meat, dang it!" lol
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-05-2008, 01:27 PM
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Testing on animals is misleading and does not prove safety in people. People have died or been harmed by things that were tested as safe in some other animal. Human cell cultures are much more accurate and give faster results at less cost. You cannot be in favor of animal welfare and approve of testing on animals because it causes extreme suffering to animals in many cases. I became a vegetarian because of cruelty and if slaughter is cruel then you cannot claim to care about animal welfare if you support cruelty. All cruelty to animals for whatever excuse is against the welfare of the animal. I support animal welfare and human animal welfare which means I am also against human slaughter like blowing people up and shooting them down,etc(war & crime). I am also against hunting unless it is done by professional marksman who can kill without ever causing any suffering and only if necessary to save animals from suffering. Scientifically speaking the human animal is most closely related to chimpanzees,gorillas,and orangutans. People are animals.

Last edited by Kincsem; 12-05-2008 at 01:30 PM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-05-2008, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Testing on animals is misleading and does not prove safety in people. People have died or been harmed by things that were tested as safe in some other animal. Human cell cultures are much more accurate and give faster results at less cost. You cannot be in favor of animal welfare and approve of testing on animals because it causes extreme suffering to animals in many cases.
I didn't know about the human cell culture stuff. I'm not saying that I'm completely for testing on animals. I try to buy things that havn't been tested on them. I'm just saying that the basic reason for animal testing is to determine two issues before any new compound is introduced into a human: safety and efficacy. I'm not fond of it but it has helped us. Some of the animal testing (rabbits getting their eyes burned out etc) I don't think is acceptable.


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I became a vegetarian because of cruelty and if slaughter is cruel then you cannot claim to care about animal welfare if you support cruelty. All cruelty to animals for whatever excuse is against the welfare of the animal.
I don't support unhumane slaughter.
"Animal welfare refers to the viewpoint that it is morally acceptable for humans to use nonhuman animals for food, in animal research, as clothing, and in entertainment, so long as unnecessary suffering is avoided."
-wikipedia



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Scientifically speaking the human animal is most closely related to chimpanzees,gorillas,and orangutans. People are animals.
Yes, I know.
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post #16 of 19 Old 12-06-2008, 05:59 AM
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Human cell cultures are not accurate enough to be the sole means of testing drugs. They can show specific effects on different types of tissue but not effects on organs, systems or organisms as a whole.

If you believe everything you read, better not read.
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post #17 of 19 Old 12-06-2008, 02:02 PM
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Testing on animals is not more accurate or reliable. THalidomide back when was tested safe in animals but unsafe in human cell cultures and was put on the market as being safe and was used by pregnant women and babies were born with flippers instead of arms or legs because of it. Penicillin is fatal to guinea pigs. If it had been tested on them first it might have been tossed out or considered a poison and we might not have any antibiotics. Testing on species specific cells cultures does give info on how the whole orgainsim might be affected and fetal cell cultures will tell if it will arrest the development of a fetus or cause abnormalities. Testing on other species is never reliable evidence of its effect on a human body.
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post #18 of 19 Old 12-06-2008, 02:17 PM
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I have a LOT of rebuttal I could give to that, including pointing out several straw men, but the debate forum was removed because the admins and mods felt debates weren't suitable for this forum. So we should stop.

If you believe everything you read, better not read.
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post #19 of 19 Old 12-06-2008, 03:02 PM
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If you want to learn what real humane human doctors have to say go to www.pcrm.org and read the articles under animal experiments. You can also get information on healthy diets to help prevent health problems. PCRM is Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. They will tell you that animal experiments do not produce reliable results. The article in PDF "Failure of Animal Tests of Cox-2 Inhibitors" is one of them. I quote page 3 "Animal tests have often proved to be misleading or potentially dangerous for the evaluation of drugs that will be prescribed for humans."
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