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Any atheists within this group

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        07-24-2013, 02:35 PM
      #141
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
    All the religious people want to shove us in a corner and treat us as "less" or without value because we do not buy into organized religion.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Hyperbole much there, dear? No not ALL religious people want to shove you in a corner and treat you as 'less'. There's that ugly reverse prejudice rearing its head again.
         
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        07-24-2013, 02:39 PM
      #142
    Weanling
    Prejudice is prejudice. Reverse prejudice does not exist.

    I apologize for my exaggeration, but the my point still stands. Many Christians claim that there is a war against Christianity. I say that the silent minority is finally standing up and demanding the same rights and consideration that most Christians take for granted.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        07-24-2013, 02:47 PM
      #143
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
    Why should the military provide it? Can a Christian chaplain minister to the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists in their command? Can they put together an appropriate service for all? Why is the military wasting resources on religion in the first place?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    First of all the chaplains are from multiple faiths. Second is they are trained to administer to the different faiths. Third is they can provide sermons for the different faiths but usually give non denominational sermons so you have a wide variety sitting in the chapel. Fourth of all if you haven't noticed the military travels a lot so a chaplain is provided to travel with them. Lastly, their door is open to all comers regardless of faith or lack there of.

    I've got the distinct impression you don't know how the military operates and so arguing from a civilians perspective on how it should be. These are two completely different worlds.
         
        07-24-2013, 02:52 PM
      #144
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
    Prejudice is prejudice. Reverse prejudice does not exist.

    I apologize for my exaggeration, but the my point still stands. Many Christians claim that there is a war against Christianity. I say that the silent minority is finally standing up and demanding the same rights and consideration that most Christians take for granted.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Lets check, the article you posted had 10k atheist/agnostic and we have about 1.4 million active members. That's .7% of all active members who are atheist/agnostic. Those same 10k can go to the chaplain, counselor or see a psychologist if they want.

    EDIT: removed part of the post due to realizing I had not read something right.
         
        07-24-2013, 03:38 PM
      #145
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HorseMom1025    
    Why should the military provide it? Can a Christian chaplain minister to the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists in their command? Can they put together an appropriate service for all? Why is the military wasting resources on religion in the first place?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    This would be the least of your worries concerning waste of resources, trust me. Why would they not provide a chapel (which can be used as a multi-use building, btw) and a "chaplain"? Say you are stationed in Japan, do you speak Japanese? Or, say you are a young recruit...do you have a car?
         
        07-24-2013, 04:34 PM
      #146
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DancingArabian    
    I don't think adding another group to the list will cost that much in resources :)
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I think you are missing Darrin's point. If the military is required to provide a special "chaplain" just for atheists, to be equitable they should have to provide a chaplain for Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and many other denominations - on every single military post. The concept is both absurd and expensive. The military has always taken an ecumenical stance and there is usually one Protestant Chaplain, and one Catholic Chaplain that serve everyone...sometimes there are more on very large posts, of course. If you want to add 15 more chaplains to every post, that is around $1 million in annual salaries PER POST, and there are over 1,000 military posts around the world - that's over $1 billion a year - and that wouldn't even begin to cover all the denominations and religious type groups there are. Are you aware there are over 200 religious denominations in the US? Having a chaplain for each at each military base would approach $200 billion a year.

    There is nothing "special" about atheists - we do not owe them a "chaplain" of their very own paid for with our tax dollars any more than we owe every one of the 200 denominations and scores of other groups classified as a "religion".

    As usual, just another minority group wants special consideration - at taxpayer expense...
    Fort fireman and morganarab94 like this.
         
        07-24-2013, 04:49 PM
      #147
    Showing
    Can a chaplain minister to other faiths. That's like asking if a psychiatrist is trained to deal in a particular religion only. It's not always about the religion but the emotional support a good chaplain can provide.
         
        07-24-2013, 05:00 PM
      #148
    Green Broke
    Yes, chaplains can minister to other faiths. And in the military environment they often do.
         
        07-24-2013, 05:17 PM
      #149
    Green Broke
    Well, I think calling it an atheist chaplain is a bit ridiculous. But, I can't see where having some sort of "group leader" is a big deal. There are plenty of counselors already at hand, there would be no need to hire someone to specifically facilitate "atheist group" meetings. If there are that many atheist on any given post that are interested in "meetings" - surely one could volunteer to be a "leader". I don't see why they couldn't use the chapel for their "flock". Otherwise, do these people have anything else to complain about - it is not a recognized organized religion.
         
        07-24-2013, 06:17 PM
      #150
    Trained
    People in the military who don't believe in God already have a vast support system in the military. You can get non-religious advice from uncounted varieties of family support, financial support, etc. Yes, religious people can also get secular advice and support from those sources.

    The chapel exists to support people who HAVE religious beliefs. If the non-religious want to get together and do something together on Sunday morning, they can meet at the Golf Course (if it is a US Air Force base), the Gym, or gather in a dorm common room and watch secular humanists preaching humanism on any secular show - and there are hundreds.

    The question is not "Does the military have support systems for non-believers?", because they do. The question is if religious people can be given any support in their belief in God. And for 200+ years, the answer has been, "Of course!" Refusing that would be bias and discrimination against believers. During the last half of my career, I averaged nearly 6 months a year deployed. Since I worked 7 days/week, I often forgot it was Sunday, or would have been hard pressed to get free during services. But I should not have been forced to spend half my adult life in a totally secular environment.

    Although I'm a Baptist, I'm not big on going up to strangers and saying, "Are you SAVVEEDDDD?" It is like when the pastor of the church I go to wanted to go door-to-door in the local neighborhood. At 8 AM. On Saturday. I told him someone knocking on my door at 8 AM Saturday had better start off with "Your house is on fire!" Anything less than that would get him thrown off the property!

    If someone asks me a question, I should be free to respond. If asked about XYZ, I ought to be able to include my belief in God in response, if it is relevant. And when I deployed to a tent in Saudi Arabia - as I did more times than I counted - I should have been able to go to a religious service when my military duties did not conflict. The chaplain might be Lutheran or Catholic instead of Baptist. Oh well. I've known some wonderful Catholics, and some rotten Baptists.

    In Afghanistan in 2007, finding a Catholic priest would have been a challenge. The military tried, but having a priest available everywhere someone might be dying wasn't possible. But as a retired old fat fart, it seems the current military is increasing hostile to anyone who is a Christian, cowed by atheists who attack every manifestation of religious belief.

    I went to college in Utah. I wasn't Mormon, but I didn't expect my Mormon neighbors to give up their beliefs to humor me. I didn't see any value in trying to stamp out any Mormon influence. If I couldn't stand Mormons, I shouldn't have gone to college in Utah. And in return, FWIW, the Mormons always treated me decently. Well, one guy refused to rent to me because I was Baptist, and I once heard a woman explain why she kept her kids away from our house on Halloween by saying, "You just don't know what a Baptist might do!"

    But other than that, I had 6 years of good experiences in Utah...
         

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