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Any atheists within this group

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        07-24-2013, 10:14 PM
      #151
    Trained
    Well, you have to admit....the timing for demanding an atheist priest, oh..I mean chaplain (i.e., paid position), is kind of funny. That budget cut memo must have been put on a smaller, cost savings post-it that was so small and thin they missed it. I suppose they could send out non-prayers to the big non-god in the sky for direction,
         
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        07-24-2013, 10:59 PM
      #152
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    Well, you have to admit....the timing for demanding an atheist priest, oh..I mean chaplain (i.e., paid position), is kind of funny. That budget cut memo must have been put on a smaller, cost savings post-it that was so small and thin they missed it. I suppose they could send out non-prayers to the big non-god in the sky for direction,
    Timing is never an issue for radical minority activists making frivolous demands - you should know that by now...
    Missy May likes this.
         
        07-25-2013, 02:17 PM
      #153
    Weanling
    I actually unsubscribed to another forum called cafe Mom, because of so many post saying things like "In order to be a good mom, I must teach my kids that God does not exist, and the Bible is a Fairy Tale!!"
    Farmchic likes this.
         
        07-25-2013, 04:02 PM
      #154
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    I think you are missing Darrin's point. If the military is required to provide a special "chaplain" just for atheists, to be equitable they should have to provide a chaplain for Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and many other denominations - on every single military post. The concept is both absurd and expensive. The military has always taken an ecumenical stance and there is usually one Protestant Chaplain, and one Catholic Chaplain that serve everyone...sometimes there are more on very large posts, of course. If you want to add 15 more chaplains to every post, that is around $1 million in annual salaries PER POST, and there are over 1,000 military posts around the world - that's over $1 billion a year - and that wouldn't even begin to cover all the denominations and religious type groups there are. Are you aware there are over 200 religious denominations in the US? Having a chaplain for each at each military base would approach $200 billion a year.

    There is nothing "special" about atheists - we do not owe them a "chaplain" of their very own paid for with our tax dollars any more than we owe every one of the 200 denominations and scores of other groups classified as a "religion".

    As usual, just another minority group wants special consideration - at taxpayer expense...
    All bases are not equipped with a chaplain of every faith now so why would they be required to do so if the humanist society was approved as an endorsing organization? All that needs to be done is to allow the humanist society to be approved to endorse chaplains. Anyone else who wants to be an atheist chaplain will still have to undergo the same processes as before, that won't change.
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        07-25-2013, 04:16 PM
      #155
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darrin    
    First of all the chaplains are from multiple faiths. Second is they are trained to administer to the different faiths. Third is they can provide sermons for the different faiths but usually give non denominational sermons so you have a wide variety sitting in the chapel. Fourth of all if you haven't noticed the military travels a lot so a chaplain is provided to travel with them. Lastly, their door is open to all comers regardless of faith or lack there of.

    I've got the distinct impression you don't know how the military operates and so arguing from a civilians perspective on how it should be. These are two completely different worlds.
    My first husband was in the armed forces and I was an army wife so I know how the system works in the UK at least
    What I struggle with though is even if a chaplain can study all faiths and be trained to administer in all of them, and from what I saw they were always very sincere welcoming people but they must still fundamentally believe in one particular faith that they actually belong too - as in 'was baptized into'
    There are basic similarities between Catholics and Protestants but Mormons (probably the wealthiest Church in terms of disposable wealth) and Jehovah Witnesses wont take part in any form of worship in a Church other than of their own affiliation so how could they be involved in an 'all comers church' that acknowledged the Cross as a sacred or believed in the Holy Trinity?
    That's not even touching on all the Jewish and Muslim people in the Military
    Just a thought.
         
        07-25-2013, 04:50 PM
      #156
    Trained
    Most folks in the military accept the limitations that manning and budgets impose. It is probably harder on Catholics than Protestants, since Catholics need a priest to perform certain religious functions. For my part, I considered chaplains to simply be people who would offer support from the perspective of someone who believes in God.

    When I was stationed in England, an LDS (Mormon) chaplain was nearly given the Protestant service to head. The 'congregation' told the other staff that no one would attend, because the theological differences between Protestant Christianity and the LDS are greater than the divide between Catholics and Protestants. The Chapel backed down, and let him lead an LDS service for anyone who wished.

    It isn't a perfect system, but it does allow some consideration for those who believe in God. If I needed advice, I'd much rather go to a Jewish Chaplain than a humanist one, because the Jewish chaplain would undoubtedly share more of my worldview.
    Roadyy likes this.
         
        07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
      #157
    Trained
    Well, if I did not have faith to help me forgive and accept the actions of non-horsey people - God help them. :)
         
        07-25-2013, 06:06 PM
      #158
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GamingGrrl    
    The "happy holidays" pushers are most likely the pushy atheists.
    This may have been addressed already (I'm reading posts in order), but I very much disagree with this statement. When one does not know the religion of another, it is much more polite to say Happy Holidays than Merry Christmas. Where I work we have such a wide variety of religions, Happy Holidays covers them all, where Merry Christmas does not. It has nothing to do with being a pushy atheist and everything to do with respecting people's religions...
         
        07-25-2013, 07:19 PM
      #159
    Super Moderator
    Since the Protestant are a 'spin off' from the Catholics courtesy of Henry 8th then they are actually very close but the Mormons & Jehovah Witnesses do have some pretty major differences but both are very committed to their faiths - more likely in the UK at least to attend church meetings several times a week than the average protestant who goes several times in a lifetime - baptisms, weddings, funerals and maybe Christmas and Easter
    When I was in Germany they used to go to local Chapels - the same would apply in most countries that have the facilities - its where they don't exist and they are likely the most traumatic to be stationed in like Iraq and Afghanistan where its likely most important to be able to talk to someone of your own faith if you're struggling
    The Happy Holiday is a tough one as it wouldn't actually be a holiday at all if not for certain religious groups acknowledging Christmas as the time to remember the birth of Christ
    I'm inclined to think a totally non-religious sympathetic trained ear might work better for me in that situation than someone who had very different beliefs in who or what God, Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit are, heaven, hell, purgatory, life after death ................
         
        07-25-2013, 07:45 PM
      #160
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darrin    
    I honestly don't think agnostic and atheist should be pigeon holed together. They are two different beliefs. Agnostic believe something is out there they just don't know what. It could be an advanced alien race, it might be God, it could be a super advanced AI or anything else that comes to mind. Atheist believe there is nothing out there.
    Not quite. While an agnostic believes it is impossible to know if god(s) exist (or simply refuses to believe one way or the other), atheism is the absence of a belief in god(s)...but that doesn't mean "nothing." Some categorize Buddhism as atheism because of there is no "personal god." An atheist could believe in an advanced, alien, non-god race or a super advanced AI; he just doesn't believe they are gods.

    Agnostic is about "not knowing" and gnostic is about knowing. A theist believes a god exists, an atheist does not believe gods exist. You can actually have agnostic atheists (doesn't believe gods exist but doesn't know for sure), gnostic atheists (does not believe any god exists and claims to be know for sure), agnostic theists (believes a god exists, but won't claim this belief to be true), and gnostic theists (believes a god exists and claims to know this as fact).

    But yes, agnostic and atheist are certainly two different things.

    I'm an agnostic bigfooter... while I don't believe in the existence of Big Foot, I can't claim to know for certain... Oh, and a Frisbeetarian... : )
         

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