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Any atheists within this group

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        07-27-2013, 09:30 AM
      #201
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FlyGap    
    Ok! Go tell the billion people in Africa they should be dead for being born/birthing in huts... And what do you think the sailors did before GPS? Ummmm, that would be navigate by the stars.

    I'm terribly sorry so many of you have had poor experiences with so called religious people...
    But in general they are a good lot. Regardless of all the wars that have been waged throughout history (that have gotten us to where we are now) there is a lot to be thankful for when it comes to religious charity and morality. I wonder what the percentage of purely Atheist charity is compared to say... Christian Missionary work, Mormon service, etc...
    Yes they are - and that's speaking from experience.
    I was baptized by my great grandfather as were all of his grandchildren and grt grandchildren born in his lifetime. He was a wonderful example of what he stood for and believed in - that regardless of how we worship, where we worship or what our religion or lack of religion we will be judged by our works and how we treat our fellow man
    Sadly its often the so called 'Christians that do set the bad example that make the most noise with their rudeness and aggressive attitude who are the ones that are the most seen and heard
    Christmas did just replace the old pagan festivals from that time of year that the people didn't want to give up. It fitted in very well. They celebrated the 'coming of the light' which was vital to their survival, a sign that there would once again be life in nature after the death of winter and Christ was seen as the Light who showed us there was life after death.
    I don't think there is anywhere in the Bible that orders us to celebrate his birth which is why the Jehovah Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas - only Easter as it was the sacrifice that mattered.
         
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        07-27-2013, 11:39 AM
      #202
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    Everything written about Jesus birth (which is a story that came much later) was all based on Equinox and the Pagan rituals. The story of Jesus being born in a stable, think about it, the reality. A baby born in a stable would have had zero chance of survival as would the mother. It wouldn't have been the lovely fluffed up feed box we see depicted. And how did the shepherds and wise men follow the star to the stable. A star that's thousands of miles high would be shining over entire cities. It makes for an imaginative read but definitely not feasible.
    Human babies were born out doors, caves, log huts, teepees, wigwams , you name it for mallenia before the birth of Christ. Christmas was placed close to some Pagan holidays(true), there are some pagan traditions involved(true) but the day of Christmas is for the celebration of the birth. Regardless of whether or not that is the true day.
    July 4 is set aside for independence day but it was actually unanimously approved on July 2. Should we say that isnt what the day is for just because 1500 years ago on that day some pagan slaughterd a sheep?
         
        07-27-2013, 11:51 AM
      #203
    Showing
    The chances of both child and mother surviving birth was almost zero for thousands of years and it's still like that in third world countries. Unsanitary conditions was and still is the cause. So how unsanitary is a stable? Right at the top of the list. In jesus time people were put in sepulchres because no one knew if they were dead for sure. There were many instances where the so-called dead arose and left.
         
        07-27-2013, 12:42 PM
      #204
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    The chances of both child and mother surviving birth was almost zero for thousands of years and it's still like that in third world countries. Unsanitary conditions was and still is the cause. So how unsanitary is a stable? Right at the top of the list. In jesus time people were put in sepulchres because no one knew if they were dead for sure. There were many instances where the so-called dead arose and left.
    Obviously, this is not true. Humans radiated nearly all over the globe. They are no different from other animals - or do you think they are "special", chosen perhaps? And, certain races have almost no childbirth deaths (either the mother, child or both), while others have a significant percentage - but none has near 100%.

    If I were faced with the choice between straw manger bedding in the open air and human "bedding" that had probably not been washed in months in close enclosed quarters with humans which carry human diseases, infections, and parasites - I would choose the straw w the moo cow, any day. Unsanitary is a relative term, in this case.

    Religious text is just that, it is not to be confused w a scientific journal. It appears as if Mendel took a few liberties w his data....does this mean there is no such thing as inherited traits?

    Whatever your personal belief is concerning the origin of life is - it is. And? I may have missed it, but I don't believe you have identified what your personal belief is. You have only attacked what you believe the beliefs of individuals that identify as Christians/jews to be.
         
        07-27-2013, 01:58 PM
      #205
    Started
    I don't get a lot of flack because I try to avoid the subject of religion, especially when I'm around people who I know will have a problem with my beliefs. It's a useless thing to debate. Your faith is your business, and trying to convert people is 1) totally wrong and 2) an exercise in futility.

    I have had encounters with JW's, but so far, they've been very polite. I just thank them for whatever booklet they're handing out and that's that.
    demonwolfmoon and Missy May like this.
         
        07-27-2013, 02:14 PM
      #206
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    PS for the fiftieth time, not everyone needs religious guilt to try to live a moral life.
    I was raised a "staunch atheist". I was deprived of being encourage to read the bible, which if nothing else leaves a huge hole in one's education. However, my parents could/can quote the bible with the very best of them. When I got around to becoming familiar w the bible, I noticed there was shocking similarity to the morals and values I had been taught and to those of biblical teachings. I wouldn't attribute that to my not having needed religious influence to know right from wrong from a "moral" aspect, I would attribute it to the obvious - there was a religious influence - indirectly. If you merely live in western culture the same influence is there. I feel no guilt if I swat a fly or mosquito, but maybe I would if I were hindu. But I would hope to God that if I were raised in a country where the state was the religion (communism), I would still be horrifically repulsed by the idea of eating puppies.
         
        07-27-2013, 03:55 PM
      #207
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shropshirerosie    
    I suspect this is a combination of colloquial use, and typed language leading to misinterpretation by me.

    I would never use "you people" unless I was being deliberately aggressive in tone and meaning. I would use "you" meaning the many people I am addressing. When I read your statement I was so surprised at the aggression in that first statement that I reacted strongly to it.

    This may be an international language use thing....

    Ditto this. "You people" comes off as very condescending, hostile and just snarky.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    demonwolfmoon likes this.
         
        07-27-2013, 05:37 PM
      #208
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    I was raised a "staunch atheist". I was deprived of being encourage to read the bible, which if nothing else leaves a huge hole in one's education. However, my parents could/can quote the bible with the very best of them. When I got around to becoming familiar w the bible, I noticed there was shocking similarity to the morals and values I had been taught and to those of biblical teachings. I wouldn't attribute that to my not having needed religious influence to know right from wrong from a "moral" aspect, I would attribute it to the obvious - there was a religious influence - indirectly. If you merely live in western culture the same influence is there. I feel no guilt if I swat a fly or mosquito, but maybe I would if I were hindu. But I would hope to God that if I were raised in a country where the state was the religion (communism), I would still be horrifically repulsed by the idea of eating puppies.
    missymay, there are similarities in the values of all the major religions.

    As for me, I was raised by huge religious hypocrites. So I read and was preached to, and went to Christian school, and
    Largely kept apartmfrom my peers (wasnt allowed outside, and apparently all the neighbors were evil). I found that not hurting people for the sake of not hurting people MAKES SENSE. As do most of the othwr religious "rules". I reject the reasoning, and just try to be a good person.
    Religion set forth a guideline that allowed the human race to be successful as a large com,munoty. You could replace the wordmreligion with culture, and the effect is the same. But really it boiled down to rules to keep us together cohesively instead of killing each other over goats, women and farmland. I just think that many of us see the sense in containing ourselvea without the threat of hellfire.
         
        07-27-2013, 06:35 PM
      #209
    Showing
    A week ago I had a chance encounter with an old friend at our medical clinic but she hastened away. Today I got the story. The night before she'd had a stroke and could see only light and dark. This woman over the past 10 years has been attacked by one form of cancer after another. The first in her shoulder, chemo and surgery. It returned a few years later. Knee surgery, cancer returned in her mouth, more chemo and surgery. Because the chemo steals calcium from the bones her lower back now requires shots of potent drugs and now the stroke. I asked her what else could be thrown at her. Her response was God was looking after her. I suggested perhaps he'd turned his back on her. She believed he'd give her only what she could handle that she needed to believe that.
         
        07-27-2013, 06:54 PM
      #210
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    A week ago I had a chance encounter with an old friend at our medical clinic but she hastened away. Today I got the story. The night before she'd had a stroke and could see only light and dark. This woman over the past 10 years has been attacked by one form of cancer after another. The first in her shoulder, chemo and surgery. It returned a few years later. Knee surgery, cancer returned in her mouth, more chemo and surgery. Because the chemo steals calcium from the bones her lower back now requires shots of potent drugs and now the stroke. I asked her what else could be thrown at her. Her response was God was looking after her. I suggested perhaps he'd turned his back on her. She believed he'd give her only what she could handle that she needed to believe that.
    I have a hard time understanding what it accomplished by throwing that statement at someone that is faithful and obviously using that faith to stay strong. Nothing like a kick to the ribs when someone is down.
         

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