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Any atheists within this group

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        07-27-2013, 08:32 PM
      #221
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    flygap, I imagine a lot of women and infants DO die from unsanitary conditions and lack of healthcare.

    Actually, given the sheer number of believers, im sure the charitable contributions are greater.My one ex FB friend (unfriended for being an ignorant hateful thing) contributed to a lot of causes FINANCIALLY. She was big on anti slaughter, for example...but wouldnt get her hands dirty. Wasnt christ, for example, one who got down WITH the impoverished? I know Buddha was...

    Anyway, I just went on a tangent, but there is more than one way to contribute, and im sure many of us do, though smaller in NUMBER, and without the religious GUILT. Though seeing how hateful human beings are, I help in small ways and encourage DD to do the same. Admittedly, I prefer rescuing animals, nursing wildlife over dropping money in a donation jar...

    PS for the fiftieth time, not everyone needs religious guilt to try to live a moral life.

    Though, I was once told by a Muslim coworker of my DH (we were arguing religion) that the inner voice that tells me stealing/lying etc is wrong...IS the voice of God.

    *shrug*
    Maybe I'm having a senior moment, but I don't quite understand your references to "religious guilt". Are you saying that religious people support charitable causes because of some kind of guilt associated with religion? I give a lot to charities - mostly out of compassion...possibly some guilt, but any guilt I feel is because I am blessed by health and wealth, while life for so many people in this world is such a daily struggle just to survive...I'm not sure I understand why someone would give to charity because their religion somehow made them feel guilty...
         
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        07-27-2013, 08:38 PM
      #222
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    If westboro baptist is no more representative of the Christian Church

    Than the Taliban is of Islam

    I hope that people understand that unkindnesses like The OP's comment to her friend are not representative of the majority of nonbelievers....
    I love this!! BUT how many of you, posting your faithless beliefs, are judging the entire Christian faith by your few encounters with, Bible thumping faith pushers.

    Now, Redhorseridge, we can use the word IRONIC!
    SouthernTrails likes this.
         
        07-27-2013, 08:38 PM
      #223
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    If westboro baptist is no more representative of the Christian Church

    Than the Taliban is of Islam

    I hope that people understand that unkindnesses like The OP's comment to her friend are not representative of the majority of nonbelievers....
    No - I for one certainly don't believe all atheists or non-believers are like that...it takes a "special" person to be that crass, and it has nothing to do with religious belief or non-belief. I know a lot of non-believers, and none of them have so little compassion and humanity that they could say something like that to a woman in those circumstances...
         
        07-27-2013, 08:46 PM
      #224
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Faceman    
    Maybe I'm having a senior moment, but I don't quite understand your references to "religious guilt". Are you saying that religious people support charitable causes because of some kind of guilt associated with religion? I give a lot to charities - mostly out of compassion...possibly some guilt, but any guilt I feel is because I am blessed by health and wealth, while life for so many people in this world is such a daily struggle just to survive...I'm not sure I understand why someone would give to charity because their religion somehow made them feel guilty...
    I take it you're not catholic.

    Mostly, what Im saying is this: I don't not steal because God is watching, and will know I sinned.

    I don't donate to homeless shelters because I have been "blessed", and feel a religious obligation to share.

    I don't rescue animals to be a good steward, and get in good with god.

    I don't Not Kill because God hath commanded it, and I don't want to be ****ed for eternity.

    Im sure I fornicated enough when I was younger. I don't feel guilty, I don't ask anyones forgiveness, and if I decided to commit adultery, fear of god wouldnt stop me. Nor the guilt that he was watching my "shame".

    I don't do anything, or not do anything, because an otherworldly presence has commanded. I don't need that to decide that hurting people is bad.

    PS, one of my ex bfs moms was a devout catholic. The church felt no shame hitting up a sick old woman for every bit of disposible income....and some nondisposible..that the old woman had. Too bad they felt no shame in causing their own some hardship. They knew she would give, every single time. :/
         
        07-27-2013, 08:49 PM
      #225
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Taffy Clayton    
    I love this!! BUT how many of you, posting your faithless beliefs, are judging the entire Christian faith by your few encounters with, Bible thumping faith pushers.

    Now, Redhorseridge, we can use the word IRONIC!
    Not all Christians are Bible Thumping Faith Pushers.

    Just the crazy ones. ;) We all know they yell the loudest.

    (and unfortunately, its the squeaky wheel that gets the grease).
         
        07-27-2013, 08:51 PM
      #226
    Started
    First, I'd like to say we need to remember that when reading something on line, it may not come across as it was meant and I think we should find out first before we start slamming people and accusing them of pulling wings off bugs and kicking puppies.

    Regarding Saddlebag: I see two, quite opposite situations where someone might say what she said.

    Scenario 1: I find out my friend is very ill and go talk to her. She is very religious; me, not so much. She talks about how god is looking after her. We have a very, very long talk about god. And she says she knows god is with her. I don't understand (no faith); how can someone who is so sick and has gone through so much still believe? So I ask how she knows... suggesting that perhaps god, for some reason, has actually turned his back on her.. how does she KNOW he is looking after her and has not forsaken her? I want to understand... so she explains that it's faith. And that god would never give anyone more than they can handle...

    Scenario 2: I am talking to my very religious friend who has gone through all of this and she says god is looking after her and I reply "he's not doing a very god job now is he? Looks like he's turned his back on you..."

    In the first scenario, I am trying to understand her faith and she witnesses to me. In the second, I'm a 100% A**hole.

    I can see both of these (and anything in between) based on what Saddlebag said...
    Shropshirerosie likes this.
         
        07-27-2013, 08:55 PM
      #227
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by demonwolfmoon    
    I take it you're not catholic.

    Mostly, what Im saying is this: I don't not steal because God is watching, and will know I sinned.

    I don't donate to homeless shelters because I have been "blessed", and feel a religious obligation to share.

    I don't rescue animals to be a good steward, and get in good with god.

    I don't Not Kill because God hath commanded it, and I don't want to be ****ed for eternity.

    Im sure I fornicated enough when I was younger. I don't feel guilty, I don't ask anyones forgiveness, and if I decided to commit adultery, fear of god wouldnt stop me. Nor the guilt that he was watching my "shame".

    I don't do anything, or not do anything, because an otherworldly presence has commanded. I don't need that to decide that hurting people is bad.

    PS, one of my ex bfs moms was a devout catholic. The church felt no shame hitting up a sick old woman for every bit of disposible income....and some nondisposible..that the old woman had. Too bad they felt no shame in causing their own some hardship. They knew she would give, every single time. :/
    Mrs. Face is Catholic, but no, I'm just a plain old Presbyterian. I have to admit though that now that you have jogged my thoughts, Catholic teachings can tend to use guilt as leverage. Obviously Protestant ministers often leverage guilt to fill the collection plate, but I don't equate that with philanthropy/charitable giving independent from tithing...
    demonwolfmoon likes this.
         
        07-27-2013, 10:10 PM
      #228
    Trained
    I was raised a Catholic. I can attest 100%, that particular religion is completely based in guilt and shame. When I was 5 freakin years old, I was in bible class while my parents were in church. I was the smartest kid in the class, could answer any Jesus question they threw at me. We were doing something that involved pencils and erasers. The erasers were these cool looking quarter sized round things. As a five year old, I thought it was the neatest thing ever. Even though I know God was watching, I pocketed the eraser on my way out. That stupid $1 eraser caused me so much guilt over the years as a kid, it was unbelievable. As I got older, each Sunday sitting in church listening to all the things that would **** us and send us to hell was utter BS. What kind of religion would lay all that on anyone, no less a child? My parents told me, once I was confirmed, I could make whatever decision I wanted. The second my confirmation party was over, I left organized religion behind. I find the whole concept of a god archaic. There is so much evidence of evolution right before our eyes and not one hint of a benevolent entity. I live my life as honorably as I can, and don't need a book or god to tell me to do so. I try to do the right thing because it's what you do. I'm am very spiritual and feel connected to other living things, but organized religion has no place in my life. I still have the eraser.
    demonwolfmoon likes this.
         
        07-28-2013, 11:35 AM
      #229
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
    I was raised a Catholic. I can attest 100%, that particular religion is completely based in guilt and shame. When I was 5 freakin years old, I was in bible class while my parents were in church. I was the smartest kid in the class, could answer any Jesus question they threw at me. We were doing something that involved pencils and erasers. The erasers were these cool looking quarter sized round things. As a five year old, I thought it was the neatest thing ever. Even though I know God was watching, I pocketed the eraser on my way out. That stupid $1 eraser caused me so much guilt over the years as a kid, it was unbelievable. As I got older, each Sunday sitting in church listening to all the things that would **** us and send us to hell was utter BS. What kind of religion would lay all that on anyone, no less a child? My parents told me, once I was confirmed, I could make whatever decision I wanted. The second my confirmation party was over, I left organized religion behind. I find the whole concept of a god archaic. There is so much evidence of evolution right before our eyes and not one hint of a benevolent entity. I live my life as honorably as I can, and don't need a book or god to tell me to do so. I try to do the right thing because it's what you do. I'm am very spiritual and feel connected to other living things, but organized religion has no place in my life. I still have the eraser.
    Whenever I think of Catholic kids feeling guilty, I think of a funny incident when I was in the Army. I was a Chaplain's Assistant in the Army (as was my father ), and one day this "earthy" priest we had (he was a troop priest, but not a very good "family" priest) came in my office just shaking his head and cussing. He had just heard first confessions from some kids and one of them was guilt ridden and confessed that she had been chewing her lip or cheek and had swallowed some skin right before she took communion. Older Catholics will understand that and remember how rigid the Church used to be before a lot of the rules were relaxed, but this poor little girl had taken everything so literally and was really upset...
         
        07-28-2013, 01:53 PM
      #230
    Banned
    While the topic of this thread is the intrusive nature of (some) Christians, I thought this story came at an appropriate time to illustrate the intrusive nature of (some) atheists. It works both ways, folks. This is really sad...

    Atheist group opposes Holocaust memorial on Ohio statehouse grounds

    By Cristina Corbin
    Published July 25, 2013FoxNews.com

    • An atheist group believes the Holocaust memorial depicted above violates the separation of church and state. (daniel-libeskind.com)

    A Wisconsin-based atheist group has expressed its opposition to a Holocaust memorial set to be built on the ground of the Ohio statehouse, arguing that its location violates the separation of church and state and calling the Star of David "exclusionary" in memorializing victims of the Nazis.
    But Ohio Gov. John Kasich and proponents of the memorial say it will teach people about man's inhumanity to man and that, contrary to the atheists' claim, it will include all those killed by the Nazis -- including U.S. Soldiers, ethnic and religious minorities, homosexuals and the mentally ill.
    Joyce Garver Keller, executive director of Jewish Communities, an organization that represents Jewish groups across the state, said the memorial is intended "mostly to honor those who had survived and who had come to Ohio to build a life."
    Keller said it is appropriate to build the structure on state grounds because it will "remind lawmakers and those who work in and around government of the important role and responsibility they have in speaking out in the face of hatred, anti-Semetism and genocide."
    "The Holocaust did not begin in concentration camps in the ovens with smoke stacks and mass graves," Keller told FoxNews.com. "It began in the halls of government with the passage of laws that targeted Jews, taking their properties, their businesses, their home, their freedom and ultimately their lives.
    Kasich first proposed the idea of a memorial during a May 4, 2011, annual Holocaust commemoration at the statehouse.
    "We need to have remembrance in this statehouse," Kasich said at the time. "Iíd call on the Jewish community, along with our brothers in faith, to develop some sort of a memorial that members of our legislature and members of the public, as they pass through this great rotunda, will be able to understand not just the history of a time when people wouldnít stand, but the fact that itís today we must stand against evil."
    "Letís construct something in this rotunda that can teach people about manís inhumanity to man, best exemplified by what happened in the Holocaust," he said.
    The inscription planned for the memorial will read: "Inspired by the Ohio soldiers who were part of the American liberation and survivors who made Ohio their home. If you save one life, it is as if you have saved the world."
    "In remembrance the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust and millions more including prisoners of war, ethnic and religious minorities, homosexuals, the mentally ill, the disabled, and political dissidents were suffered under Nazi Germany."
    The Jewish Star of David will be prominently featured at the site.
    Kellers and others call such a memorial "inclusive," while the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) claims the memorial is discriminatory and has no place on government grounds.
    "The Star of David is a religious symbol that is exclusionary," Dan Barker, a spokesman for the group, told FoxNews.com. "Weíre not opposed to the memorial and we have sympathy for all the victims. We would probably give money to it if it were not on state grounds."
    "A secular government is not supposed to have a religious endorsement," Barker continued. "I have Jewish heritage myself, but just because we like the religion and we're sympathetic to Holocaust survivors, doesnít mean we should violate the precious American principle of separation between church and state."
    Barker said the group expressed its opposition in a letter to the state, but has no plans to sue.
    Approximately 11 million people perished in the Holocaust. Historians say at least 6 million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis, as did 1.9 million Polish civilians, mostly Christians. More than three million Soviet prisoners of war died and more than two million Soviet civilians, mostly Christians, were killed. More than one million Yugoslav civilians died and between 22,000 and 500,000 Gypsies were the victims of genocide, according to historical accounts. Approximately 70,000 men, women and children with mental and physical handicaps were murdered as well as an unknown number of political prisoners, resistance fighters, homosexuals and deportees.
    According to Kasich's office, the memorial will sit 84 yards from a bronze inscription in front of the statehouse that reads: "With God, all things are possible." The American Civil Liberties Union had previously sued over that inscription and lost.





    Read more: Atheist group opposes Holocaust memorial on Ohio statehouse grounds | Fox News
         

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