Any atheists within this group - Page 24 - The Horse Forum

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post #231 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 02:00 PM
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^^^^^

Maybe some atheists do not believe the holocaust happened either


.
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post #232 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernTrailsGA View Post
^^^^^

Maybe some atheists do not believe the holocaust happened either


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http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

And this goes both ways too. There are always people who want to believe conspiracy theories. They come from all beliefs (or lack thereof).
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post #233 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 03:49 PM
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Maybe these people should have spoken to someone like my father who as a very young man was in the (UK) Engineers Regiment attached to an American division and among the first to enter the concentration camp at Belsen
When they bulldozed bodies into mass graves they weren't always certain that some of them were dead as occasionally someone spotted movement and a living skeleton of a person was pulled out alive
He had nightmares about it for the rest of his life.
Many of the men who served in that war became atheists because they couldn't believe that a caring God could allow such a thing to happen.
Events like that can move someone's faith in either direction.
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post #234 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 03:50 PM
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All my relatives are extremely religious people from different religions that all despise one another. I feel fortunate to be born from parents who are non-religious and have never pushed or forced a certain belief on us other than being a decent human being. I don't care whether someone is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, etc. as long as they keep it to themselves and their place of worship.
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post #235 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 04:08 PM
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I had a customer at the movies the other night come in for a movie. His friend was late so he switched movie times. I spoke with him for a short while, and then he got a call saying his friend went to the wrong theater across town and he only had about 10 minutes to get there. I refunded his ticket and he walked out. A few seconds later, he ran back in "Oh! I forgot to tell you. God loves you and he has great plans for you!" While I do not consider myself a "Christian" and have my own ways of worshiping my god, that made me feel so good and sad at the same time. I know of many people who would not have taken his words with thanks. I know so many who would have laughed at him, or gotten all uppity and offended. There was absolutely no harm in those words. Religious in nature, but meant as encouragement and thanks. I was very appreciative.
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post #236 of 347 Old 07-28-2013, 10:59 PM
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One of my good friends is jewish. We met in college. After we graduated and trying to be considerate, the first time I sent her a "holiday" card I sent her a pretty not to Christmassy card that was blank inside and used the word "holidays" in my message. I was then an atheist. She sent me a Christmas card. She thought it was funny that I had been careful not to send her a Christmas card - she didn't let my "religion" stop her.

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post #237 of 347 Old 07-29-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
Many of the men who served in that war became atheists because they couldn't believe that a caring God could allow such a thing to happen.

Oh Please! Where do you get your facts,I use that word loosely?
God didn't carry out the holocaust, man did.
There still is free choice in religion.

You didn't mention if any of the first responders, survivors or any members of victims families of 9-11 are now atheists.
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Last edited by Taffy Clayton; 07-29-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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post #238 of 347 Old 07-29-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Taffy Clayton View Post
Oh Please! Where do you get your facts,I use that word loosely?
God didn't carry out the holocaust, man did.
There still is free choice in religion.

You didn't mention if any of the first responders, survivors or any members of victims families of 9-11 are now atheists.
I worked for most of my later employment life in Social Services with the elderly and then as a manager in a care home where all of the residents and clients were of the age that they lived through WW2 and a large number of them had lost all faith in God. Only a small handful were ever interested in attending religious services, seeing local religious leaders or having a religious person with them in their last hours.
God may not have carried out the holocaust but to many people who had spent their lives thanking God every day in school, Church or Chapel for all the good things he bestowed on them it gave the idea in their heads that he had control of what happened - otherwise why thank him at all if it was 'pure luck'. With this in their minds they then could surely be excused for not understanding why he had no control over the bad things too. People form their own opinions - you or I have no control over that at all.
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people say 'How can God allow this to happen?'
People see things differently.
I can't possibly speak from a US point of view as I know nothing about religion here - other than it seems to have more interest than in the UK where most people have little to no interest in it all and for those that do attend Churches its more of a social club
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post #239 of 347 Old 07-29-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I worked for most of my later employment life in Social Services with the elderly and then as a manager in a care home where all of the residents and clients were of the age that they lived through WW2 and a large number of them had lost all faith in God. Only a small handful were ever interested in attending religious services, seeing local religious leaders or having a religious person with them in their last hours.
God may not have carried out the holocaust but to many people who had spent their lives thanking God every day in school, Church or Chapel for all the good things he bestowed on them it gave the idea in their heads that he had control of what happened - otherwise why thank him at all if it was 'pure luck'. With this in their minds they then could surely be excused for not understanding why he had no control over the bad things too. People form their own opinions - you or I have no control over that at all.
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people say 'How can God allow this to happen?'
People see things differently.
I can't possibly speak from a US point of view as I know nothing about religion here - other than it seems to have more interest than in the UK where most people have little to no interest in it all and for those that do attend Churches its more of a social club
And, there were those like CS Lewis (WWI) that went the other way (atheist to religious). Far more people were eliminated in Russia and China than were in the holocaust. Note the policy on religion of both at the time. And, the holocaust didn't end b/c the Nazi's changed their minds - and it wasn't exclusively atheists that fought against the Nazis. The citizens of countries that replace religion with the "state", or where the government is religion (e.g., Iran) don't tend to fair to well in the end. It doesn't prove their is a god, but it does prove that when men take the role of god...it isn't pretty.

I wonder how anyone, mortal or God, can allow the wholesale slaughter of fellow creatures at the hands of man. My personal beliefs do not start and stop with welfare of humans. Is that just not comparable to genecide? It depends on your personal religion.

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post #240 of 347 Old 07-29-2013, 12:39 PM
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And, there were those like CS Lewis (WWI) that went the other way (atheist to religious). Far more people were eliminated in Russia and China than were in the holocaust. Note the policy on religion of both at the time. And, the holocaust didn't end b/c the Nazi's changed their minds - and it wasn't exclusively atheists that fought against the Nazis. The citizens of countries that replace religion with the "state", or where the government is religion (e.g., Iran) don't tend to fair to well in the end. It doesn't prove their is a god, but it does prove that when men take the role of god...it isn't pretty.

I wonder how anyone, mortal or God, can allow the wholesale slaughter of fellow creatures at the hands of man. My personal beliefs do not start and stop with welfare of humans. Is that just not comparable to genecide? It depends on your personal religion.
If you read my original post I did say that traumatic experiences can go either way - it can push people towards God just as easily as it can push them away
At the time of WW1 & WW2 the majority of British people were Christians who attended Church or Chapel on a regular basis. They went to war believing it to be a worthy cause not to mindlessly kill people. Many were very young, raised on the Old Testament as much as the new and firmly believing that God was 'all powerful', he could produce plagues to kill the enemies of the righteous , divide the waters to allow for Moses to flee............they must have felt very abandoned out there when none of that happened
My own father who was raised in a deeply religious family where the Churches and Chapels were the focal point of village life and had been for generations never set foot in one again after the war other than what he called social events like weddings etc because he felt that the things the Church had taught him were misleading and led him to expect too much.
There is a view on God - that we are all here to do the best we can with what we are given, that God interferes in no way at all, he doesn't make good things or bad things happen but what he does give us is the courage & strength to cope with things when they do go wrong.

Last edited by jaydee; 07-29-2013 at 12:41 PM. Reason: spelling error
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