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Any atheists within this group

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    07-29-2013, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by jaydee    
If you read my original post I did say that traumatic experiences can go either way - it can push people towards God just as easily as it can push them away
At the time of WW1 & WW2 the majority of British people were Christians who attended Church or Chapel on a regular basis. They went to war believing it to be a worthy cause not to mindlessly kill people. Many were very young, raised on the Old Testament as much as the new and firmly believing that God was 'all powerful', he could produce plagues to kill the enemies of the righteous , divide the waters to allow for Moses to flee............they must have felt very abandoned out there when none of that happened
My own father who was raised in a deeply religious family where the Churches and Chapels were the focal point of village life and had been for generations never set foot in one again after the war other than what he called social events like weddings etc because he felt that the things the Church had taught him were misleading and led him to expect too much.
There is a view on God - that we are all here to do the best we can with what we are given, that God interferes in no way at all, he doesn't make good things or bad things happen but what he does give us is the courage & strength to cope with things when they do go wrong.
Yes, I missed it. I didn't mean it in an argumentative way - just as point that it was not entirely one way.
Aside from wars, which tend to have significant and lasting affects on populations for understandable reason including vegetarianism, it would appear that during the same years (WWI forward) the UK became increasingly socialistic. Having a rather long history of battles and invasions, the UK was no stranger to "war" prior to WWI. I will stop there b/c UK history would be (or most likely is) your strong suit, not mine.
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    07-29-2013, 05:20 PM
Super Moderator
UK Socialism wasn't like Communism - still isn't. The UK is too fond and proud of its democracy and associated rights to ever go down that route.
WW1 was about fighting for freedom. They could have saved a lot of lives and agony by forming an alliance with Hitler and had King Edward as a 'puppet king' but that would have meant bowing to a fascist dictator
Men (and women) returning from a war fought for King & Country, so many mourning lives lost and the devastation that had been caused by bombings were suddenly faced with the harsh reality that they couldn't afford decent healthcare, acceptable housing and still faced the horrors of the Workhouse system if they had no employment. They soon began to wonder what it had all been for.
It created an atmosphere of unrest that had the potential to turn really ugly
1945 saw the Labour Party (Socialist) that represented the working classes come into power and the advent of the NHS & Welfare State aimed at giving everyone a fair deal regardless of income status.
It was the brainchild of Aneurin Bevan, a politician who rose from a Welsh coal mining family. His statement below is what UK Socialism stood for and has nothing to do with religion -
The collective principle asserts that... no society can legitimately call itself civilised if a sick person is denied medical aid because of lack of means.
—Aneurin Bevan, In Place of Fear, p100
    07-29-2013, 10:05 PM
"With God, all things are possible." Now there's a statement that could get twisted about. If the state government is secular then why is that written there?
    07-29-2013, 11:57 PM
Jaydee, I didn't mean I confused the two (communism and socialism). I just felt that "parameter" (increasing presence of socialism) should be mentioned in that "timeline". Whether brought about by labor party or journalism - most advanced nations eventually implement government assistance for the indigent. It does not necessarily require that socialism be part of the equation. However, the establishment of socialism tends to see a decrease in religion.
    07-30-2013, 10:48 AM
Super Moderator
I can see where Socialism took away the reliance on the Church for charity - which many people relied on.
The decline in UK church going began in the 1950's and has steadily gone downhill ever since. Atheists and Agnostics only account for about one third of the population according to surveys but of the remainder even though people declare themselves to be Christian they don't actually attend church and have separated themselves from churches in general.
Interestingly an American Mormon we became friendly with when he and his wife were living in the UK and still keep in touch with (he and my husband shared a common interest in agriculture) said that the Christianity in purity would be socialism - where everyone had a completely equal share in everything regardless of what they did for a living
The Mormon Churches tithing system has similarities to the UK welfare system
The trend doesn't appear to be isolated to the UK though so not sure how much education plays a part in it with people seeing confusions in interpretations from different denominations and things they just can't accept any more as facts
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    07-30-2013, 02:09 PM
Atheists aren't tithed. One would think churches can't handle money as they are always asking for more, more, more. When our town set up a fenced area and garden plots, I paid for a few for someone who couldn't, plus money for seeds. To me that is directly helping someone, not putting money out and not knowing where it's going and maybe supporting a pretty nice lifestyle for the fat cat at the top.
    07-30-2013, 02:32 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
Atheists aren't tithed. One would think churches can't handle money as they are always asking for more, more, more. When our town set up a fenced area and garden plots, I paid for a few for someone who couldn't, plus money for seeds. To me that is directly helping someone, not putting money out and not knowing where it's going and maybe supporting a pretty nice lifestyle for the fat cat at the top.

Oh please, what do you think taxes are?
Are you going to be anti-Canadian too?
The logic just flew out the window.
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    07-30-2013, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Taffy Clayton    
Oh please, what do you think taxes are?
Are you going to be anti-Canadian too?
The logic just flew out the window.

Taffy beat me to it!

It does admittedly make me reluctant to donate to charity when I have to involuntarily contribute to flawed tax-funded programs, hierarchies and shady politicians.

Everything comes with all these stupid fees these days. Just to get the registration paperwork for my trailer was $400!
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    07-30-2013, 04:52 PM
I can see at least part of what my taxes pay for. With the churches one sees very little to nothing as to where the money goes. Why do you think they are so popular AND they don't pay taxes, even on the property the building sits on which is a heresy.
    07-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Green Broke
Come on Saddlebag? You really can't see where the money goes?
I don't know about property taxes where you are, but I am relatively certain a church pays property taxes where I live.
Electricity, water, maintenance, publishing, salaries, schools, retirement, just to name a few of the big money items.
How do you think a church pays for itself without donations?

Its just like a club, if you want to join the club, you pay your dues. You have no interest in joining this club, big deal, I don't really care, buy what is your point on bad mouthing this "club"? It makes you no better than the "Bible thumping, faith pushers" you dislike so much.
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