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Any atheists within this group

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        07-30-2013, 05:24 PM
      #251
    Trained
    And don't forget that clergy still have expenses. Food, medical bills, clothes, etc.

    Giving to the needy also is a never ending thing. Someone who needs food today will likely need it tomorrow, or perhaps health care or something else. If a person is in enough of a dire situation that they are relying on charity, that's not something that changes quickly or easily.
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        07-30-2013, 06:21 PM
      #252
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    I can see at least part of what my taxes pay for. With the churches one sees very little to nothing as to where the money goes.
    That is just a bunch of bull. If you want to see where church money goes, look at their financial statements. Churches are required to have formal financial statements compiled. They aren't secret, you know. Here are the financial statements of the Episcopal Church, just as an example...look up whatever church you want...

    http://www.episcopalchurch.org/sites...statements.pdf

    So you hate religion and hate churches - bully for you, but why not at least base your hatred on facts rather than ignorance...complain about how they spend their money if you desire - that is your choice, but don't say "one sees very little to nothing as to where the money goes", which is just ignorant prattle...
         
        07-30-2013, 08:06 PM
      #253
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    I can see at least part of what my taxes pay for. With the churches one sees very little to nothing as to where the money goes. Why do you think they are so popular AND they don't pay taxes, even on the property the building sits on which is a heresy.
    When was the last time you were in a Church, the last time you helped at a Church that gave out money to homeless people, money so a stranger could buy gas to get to a job interview, were at the yearly Book Bag marathon where they gave away 250 book bags to needy children at the beginning of school, our the Church that once a month had a Free Lunch for a 100 people, or the Church that twice a week changed the oil in Single Mothers Cars or a Dozen or two other things like Community Helping Programs?

    I am not talking about a Mega Church on TV, I am talking about the average small town church? The ones that make up 90% of American Churches. Yes, our books are free for inspection by any member, trust me no one on the Payroll make very much money at our Church or most others I have ever attended!
    And every penny is spent on helping someone in the community!

    Every been on a Mission Trip that bring Medical Supplies to kids in 3rd world countries? I have, it is the most rewarding experience you will ever have!

    How much does the ABC Atheist Group give the Community?, any Money?, any food?, any book bags to kids?, any time as in building a deck on someone's house ?, or Insulting an attic for someone who cannot afford it? Or fixing a leaky roof of a single mother with 2 kids?

    Please tell me what they do, I have it heard Zero, but that could be hearsay


    .
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        07-30-2013, 08:25 PM
      #254
    Green Broke
    You've just described what our tiny churches do here in the N Country! Small towns with big hearts :)
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        07-30-2013, 09:26 PM
      #255
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaydee    
    I can see where Socialism took away the reliance on the Church for charity - which many people relied on.
    The decline in UK church going began in the 1950's and has steadily gone downhill ever since. Atheists and Agnostics only account for about one third of the population according to surveys but of the remainder even though people declare themselves to be Christian they don't actually attend church and have separated themselves from churches in general.
    Interestingly an American Mormon we became friendly with when he and his wife were living in the UK and still keep in touch with (he and my husband shared a common interest in agriculture) said that the Christianity in purity would be socialism - where everyone had a completely equal share in everything regardless of what they did for a living
    The Mormon Churches tithing system has similarities to the UK welfare system
    The trend doesn't appear to be isolated to the UK though so not sure how much education plays a part in it with people seeing confusions in interpretations from different denominations and things they just can't accept any more as facts
    I am no fan of the mormon church, to put it mildly. I could write a book on why not, but I will refrain. Suffice it to say that I strongly believe in separation of church and state - and strong enforcement of it.

    Again, communism or socialism as practiced either see the complete removal of religion or the decline of it as well as the importance of the individual. The "state" is not a bunch of buildings, it is people. Notice that Stalin and Moa did not want for anything ... whilst sharing and sharing, alike. Freedom of religion was a direct threat to their dictatorships, and needless to say so was the "importance of the individual". When people in power (the state) dictate what "charities" earners will give their money/labor to - the takers generally hail the state (those in power), and those in power gain more power by an increase in the number of loyal dupes and their personal riches. It is a rather old formula. I do not personally believe that attending church is any sort of requirement to be religious. However, I have seen a lot of arguments that imply the greater the education level the greater the number of non-believers. I guess they excluded Israel. Either way, like I have stated before - I have met many atheists that "believe" in evolution but couldn't even begin to provide an "educated" explanation of the theory. But, I am sure they "feel" better educated than "something"....probably the religious.
         
        07-30-2013, 10:20 PM
      #256
    Yearling
    It's one thing to disagree with pushy religious people. It's also one thing to disagree with the concept of organized religion.

    It's another thing to intentionally seek out everything that you can about them to find things that you hate or disagree with.

    I don't have that kind of time on my hands, nor any desire to do so. Frankly, I don't see the point in it either.
    Missy May likes this.
         
        06-24-2014, 02:46 PM
      #257
    Green Broke
    I know this thread is old but I didn't feel like it would be worth making a new thread about.

    I'm having some trouble with my family and I really need some advice on how to appropriately handle my situation. About 4 weeks ago, give or take a week, I finally told my parents, my siblings, and a good friend of mine that I do not believe in any higher deities. My family and my friends are all highly religious and they reacted exactly how I thought they would. My parents freaked out and would ask me questions but when I would try to answer they would yell at me to shut up. The yelling continued for about 10 minutes before I was actually able to tell them why I no longer believed. And then my parents called me some choice adjectives, which I normally have a thick skin for, that really hurt because even though I expected their reaction I had a slim glimmer of hope that they would be calm and rational about it. No, I hadn't raised my voice to them yet, I was surprisingly calm through it all.

    As I suspected they accept my reason why, if they even heard me at all. And then they yelled at me some more and I finally lost it. I screamed back at my mom. I was raised on the notion that you never raise your voice to your parents so the fact that I did this meant that I was out of options. It shut her up. I'm thankful that they didn't kick me out of the house but now I'm beginning to regret ever telling them. I feel as though I should have just continued to lie to them.

    My parents, while not being on my case about it constantly, are not going to let this go. They want me to talk to someone they approve of. It's as though they don't believe that I truly didn't try to keep believing, that I didn't ask lots of questions to large amounts of people. They make it seem like I just threw it all away without a second thought. They don't understand that I don't want to talk about my beliefs anymore. And yes, I'm talking about them now but I'm out of ideas on how to nicely tell them to leave me alone. I'm not being rude to my parents, I'm not criticizing their beliefs, I go about my day the exact same way that I have since I realized that I was no longer believed in any deities. I'm a live and let live kind of person. I will leave you and your beliefs alone as longs as those beliefs aren't going to cause you physical harm. I'm not asking for them to accept it, understand it (because I know that they never will be able to understand no matter how many times I explain it to them), or be happy about it but all I want them to do is to tolerate and respect my choices and beliefs the exact same way I do theirs. They constantly look at me with disappointment and sadness and I'm seriously looking in to finding some place else to live if they don't let me be.

    And then my friend, a person who I've been friends with for 16 years, she wasn't happy when I told her but she was willing to let me be. That was until my mom talked to her a few days ago and told my friend the exact same thing that my family has told me and implied to me on a daily basis. That they are failures as parents, that they were the cause of this (despite me telling them that this has nothing to do with them), and that I'm hurting them and they only want what's best for me. That I'm a huge disappointment. And yes, I did tell her that I no longer wanted to talk about it. But she continued on, telling me nothing that I haven't already heard, been told, or figured out. I know where my friend and family is coming from and why they keep pushing the issue but I just want them to leave me alone. Next time one of them brings it up I'm going to tell them that the topic is closed for discussion with me. But what do I do if that doesn't work?

    I'm sorry that was so long but I really need advice on how to politely tell them to leave me alone. Especially if my "closed for discussion" idea doesn't work. How did you all handle your family and friends when you told them?
         
        06-24-2014, 03:21 PM
      #258
    Showing
    Why did you feel the need to tell them anything? You knew it was going to cause a major tempest and you still live with them, so what was your ultimate purpose in causing such upheaval in your family?

    You get to make your own rules when you move out. When you're still living under the parental roof, you respect their beliefs even if you don't hold them.

    If you're at the age of majority, it's time to move out. Especially since you seem to feel your parents owe you some sort of respect for having beliefs that are anathema to everything they hold dear.

    My parents and I didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I moved away from home when I was 18 y/o. However, I also knew enough not to challenge them on their strongest beliefs. Keeping the peace with those you love is much more important than being 'right'.
         
        06-24-2014, 03:31 PM
      #259
    Started
    I have learned that not one of the local churches (and there are MANY; bible belt town) will give any help to anyone NOT of their congregation. Tried to get any one of them to help a homeless couple til they could get going again. NOTHING. Nada. NO way.
         
        06-24-2014, 03:32 PM
      #260
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    Why did you feel the need to tell them anything? You knew it was going to cause a major tempest and you still live with them, so what was your ultimate purpose in causing such upheaval in your family?

    You get to make your own rules when you move out. When you're still living under the parental roof, you respect their beliefs even if you don't hold them.

    If you're at the age of majority, it's time to move out. Especially since you seem to feel your parents owe you some sort of respect for having beliefs that are anathema to everything they hold dear.

    My parents and I didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I moved away from home when I was 18 y/o. However, I also knew enough not to challenge them on their strongest beliefs. Keeping the peace with those you love is much more important than being 'right'.
    How long would you prefer she live a lie? How christian is THAT?
    RegularJoe likes this.
         

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