Is Barack Obama qualified to be President of the U.S.? Natural Born Citizen? - Page 2
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Life Beyond Horses > General Off Topic Discussion

Is Barack Obama qualified to be President of the U.S.? Natural Born Citizen?

This is a discussion on Is Barack Obama qualified to be President of the U.S.? Natural Born Citizen? within the General Off Topic Discussion forums, part of the Life Beyond Horses category
  • Powered by vBulletin definition of base
  • Powered by vBulletin barack obama

Like Tree52Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    04-15-2012, 02:46 PM
  #11
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elky    
Oh, but I can understand that. His mother was a US citizen, he was born in Hawaii, but please show me the documentation of how that makes Obama a Natural Born Citizen.

Here are some Supreme Court rulings on the definition. The Constitution does indeed use the term citizen and natural born citizen which makes a distinction of the two. If it did not make a definite distinction, there would be no need for the mention of a natural born citizen as a requirement to be POTUS. That term was indeed put into the Constitution as a requirement to be POTUS and is the only time it is mentioned in the Constitution.

His father was not a US citizen.

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority; they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens." Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393, 476 (1856)

"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners." Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 168 (1874).

Please take note of the one word above that makes all the difference. That word is parents, with an s, meaning plural, meaning both parents.

Can you understand that?
I think you need to read up on the Fourteenth Amendment. Might help.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    04-15-2012, 03:03 PM
  #12
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elky    
Oh, but I can understand that. His mother was a US citizen, he was born in Hawaii, but please show me the documentation of how that makes Obama a Natural Born Citizen.
So according to your logic, my dad is not a Natural Born citizen in the US because his mom was not born in the US even though he was? The only thing I have is a birth ceritifcate that states the circumstances in which I was born and who my birth parents are, does that mean I'm not a US citizen even though I was born in the US? No person, except immigrants, receives documentation to show they are a US citizen, not even Natural Born citizens. Well, except maybe a passport...

Anyone born in the US is a Natural Born US citizen no matter who their parents were or where they were born. Anyone born from a US citizen who is in the US military is a US citizen even if they were born out of country. That's how it works. Why? Because at least one of their parents was a US citizen.

And besides, why does this matter anymore? The Commander in Chief is almost done with his term as President, which means that there is no point in discussing whether or not he was "fit" or it was legal for him to be the President. What's done is done, he is and was elected to be the President and now he's almost done with his term as President so as I said before: What's the point of trying to prove that he isn't a Natural Born citizen? There's nothing anyone can do about it now. Seems like a waste of energy to keep worrying about this.
     
    04-15-2012, 04:00 PM
  #13
Started
Maybe someone could correct the title to spell the sitting president's name correctly? There's only one 'r' I think. I'm with everyone on the done is done side. For better or worse the supreme court refused to see the case and he is and has been CIC for a while.
     
    04-15-2012, 05:51 PM
  #14
Foal
No it is not a joke. Do you think the Constitution of the United States is a joke?

I have asked a simple question, and have yet to get an answer to it.
Apparently, by some of the replies on here, some claim to know the answer, yet decline to give proof or legal documentation.
It was stated that it has been perused endlessly on the internet, yet no one has given proof.
It was stated that his parents were US citizens, which was not true, because his father was not a citizen of the US at the time of his birth. And again no proof , link or documentation.
Is everyone in denial or just stating hearsay from the media and what they hear from friends.

Apparently you all know the answer, yet fail to back up your claims with proof.


The Fourteenth Amendment, adopted in 1868, does not use the phrase natural-born citizen. It does provide that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

John Bingham, the principal framer of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1866 states “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen; but, sir, I may be allowed to say further that I deny that the Congress of the United States ever had the power, or color of power to say that any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, not owing a foreign allegiance, is not and shall not be a citizen of the United States. Citizenship is his birthright and neither the Congress nor the States can justly or lawfully take it from him.”

Throughout the Constitution there is references to citizens and naturalized citizens, but only once is the term Natural Born Citizen mention, and that is for the requirement to hold office of the President. With no mention of Natural Born Citizen in the 14th, how can one reason that the requirement of Natural Born Citizen has changed with the 14th Amendment? There is no logic that the requirement would have changed when it was not even mentioned.
We know that the 14th Amendment only mentions the word “citizen”. It does not use the words “natural born citizen”. And it makes no distinction between a “citizen” born in the US and a “citizen” naturalized in the US. Under the 14th Amendment, they are equals. The 14th Amendment certainly does not state that being a “citizen” satisfies the qualification of Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Note that the founding fathers carefully used the words a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, and special note to at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution. Without this, they would not have been eligible to be President of the US. Anyone becoming a citizen after the adoption of the Constitution, would have had to be a Natural Born Citizen.
GreySorrel and Ripper like this.
     
    04-15-2012, 06:06 PM
  #15
Super Moderator
I have a hard time believing he would be in the position that he is in with the clearances that he has if he weren't. Why he won't produce the documents is beyond me.

What I do believe is that he was a creation of a richer party. By that I mean, he isn't very bright and does not have the ettiquette or the presence that I personally believe an American president should have. I don't think he "earned" any of his political spots on his own, I think all of his endeavors were handled by some other party but that is completely my own personal opinion. I did not vote for him nor have I been happy about him. He is, however, the American President and the position I respect.
     
    04-15-2012, 06:08 PM
  #16
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elky    
I thought the question was pretty easy. What is a Natural Born Citizen?
You just saying he is legal, does not necessarily make it so. I have spent countless hours searching this and have different thoughts on it than you do. Was John McCain a Natural Born citizen also? Was Chester Arthur a Natural Born Citizen?
This is not because I dislike Obama, this is about our Constitution, and the requirement made in that document to be eligible for holding the office of POTUS , nothing more and nothing less.
Yes it has been hashed out and persued, but not persued to death. There is very little on the internet to define what a Natural Born Citizen truly is, and why has the SCOTUS refused to clarify the meaning of Natural Born Citizen?
You evidently haven't been looking in the right places. Title 8 of the United States Code clearly defines citizenship. 8 USC § 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth | LII / Legal Information Institute

As might be expected, the very first qualifier is birth on American soil...
Quote:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof
The red is my emphasis. "At birth" obviously is "natural born".

The Constitution does not, and was never intended to supply details to cover evey contingency...if it did, it would fill a library, and there would be no need for a Supreme Court or any interpretation, because interpretation would not be necessary. It provides succinct "bullets" if you will, with specifics covered by interpretation through the Code of Federal Regulations, constitutional court findings, and so on.

While I am a conservative Republican, and am vehemently opposed to Obama, this whole citizenship thing is absurd. He was born on American soil and is therefor a natural born U.S. Citizen, and eligible to be U.S. President...pure and simple...
     
    04-15-2012, 06:13 PM
  #17
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elky    
No it is not a joke. Do you think the Constitution of the United States is a joke?

It was stated that his parents were US citizens, which was not true, because his father was not a citizen of the US at the time of his birth. And again no proof , link or documentation.
Is everyone in denial or just stating hearsay from the media and what they hear from friends.
(Quote merely trimmed for space constraint)

Um, so now I am curious……

Instead of repeatedly engaging folks in a debate on a horse forum about such a supposedly grievous err and … um… (searching for the right word)… uh… breach of the constitution and perhaps your perception of an insult to a US citizen, why not take your argument to someone/something/organization who can actually do something about it?

I'm just saying.....
     
    04-15-2012, 06:21 PM
  #18
Trained
Lockwood asks a really good question there, as far as I can see Elky has 55 posts, 1 is horse related, the rest are on political threads, very odd.
     
    04-15-2012, 06:26 PM
  #19
Yearling
Anyone born in the US, or on a US military base outside of the US itself, is considered a natural born citizen; that is one of the major arguments being tossed around due to illegal immigrants coming in from other nations and having children in the US; the children are considered natrual born with all the rights that entails.

President Obama was born in Hawaii..that makes him a natural born citizen and eligible for the presidency. I can't imagine that if there was even a small smidgeon of doubt that the Republican party would have let the matter "die." Remember that John McCain's eligibility was also questioned when it was announced he was born in Panama, on a US military base, of US parents..he only had a "Certificate of Birth Abroad" and not a standard US birth cert. Any US military base, whether in the US itself or located elsewhere, is considered US "soil" for purposes of citizenship.

As an aside, I am not exactly fond of President Obama's policies either but I don't question his eligibility, only his overall competency, for the position. As another aside, the republican pool currently running doesn't give me any giant warm fuzzies either.
     
    04-15-2012, 07:27 PM
  #20
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
Lockwood asks a really good question there, as far as I can see Elky has 55 posts, 1 is horse related, the rest are on political threads, very odd.
Well maybe you need to learn how to count. And I suppose all of your posts are horse related. Not.

Pot meet kettle.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barack Obama study- Agree or Disagree? Vogue24 General Off Topic Discussion 220 04-04-2012 10:54 PM
Could you be a citizen of the USA? Spastic_Dove Games 6 08-23-2009 11:56 AM
President Obama Kills Fly During Interview Jehanzeb Jokes and Funnies 12 06-26-2009 03:09 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0