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Debate psychotropic drugs with me!!!

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        04-06-2011, 07:40 PM
      #21
    Trained
    The overdiagnosing and overmedicating of ADHD was part of my research for my Psych final project. It's usually on boys because little boys can and do often have ADHD, but they're little kids. Let them be spastic unless it's getting seriously out of hand. The majority of boys "grow out" of ADHD during puberty and hence, no longer need their meds if they were given them. Girls, on the other hand, usually develop ADHD during puberty, but they think it's normal and don't really say anything. Girls also usually have Inattentive ADHD, so nobody knows they have a concentration problem but them. My mom attributed my bad grades and staying up until 4am to write a 2 page paper to lack of sleep for years. When I finally got the results back from the psychologist (not psychiatrist, which is why I screwed them up in my previous post. He couldn't give me meds, just suggest them), I made her come with. I was told I had one of the worst cases of ADHD he has seen. My mom had to sit there and eat her words.

    Delete, I am so sorry. You had to be one zombie little kid. Adderall and Ritalin are both very strong. I can't imagine taking them at the same time. And they're both appetite suppressants. I have to force myself to eat if I take it because I don't feel hungry for hours.
         
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        04-06-2011, 07:48 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Poseidon    
    Delete, I am so sorry. You had to be one zombie little kid. Adderall and Ritalin are both very strong. I can't imagine taking them at the same time. And they're both appetite suppressants. I have to force myself to eat if I take it because I don't feel hungry for hours.
    You hit the nail on the head, Zombie. That's exactly what I was. I weighted 65 pounds untill my 8th grade year when I hit 94. Though I got off the meds when I moved to middle school. They had lasting negative effects on me, some that I still deal with today.

    My therapist told my parents that my ADHD was so bad I was boarder line Autistic. Hence why they gave me so many drugs.
         
        04-06-2011, 07:54 PM
      #23
    Trained
    I still don't think that's reason for those two drugs together.Fully grown people (without ADHD) take Adderall to get high. Combining that with Ritalin is unbelievable.

    I have dysthymic disorder because of my ADHD. It was major depressive disorder at once point, then calmed itself down when I got ritalin. And sI don't have my mother constantly nagging on me and treating me and my brothers like crap anymore, so that's helped too. I only "crash" every few weeks rather than every other day now. Dysthymic disorder is a reduced version of major depressive disorder. You have kind of slight low feelings daily, but just kind of a dull thought or something, but you "crash" and just breakdown every once in a while. The longest you can go without one is 2 months. The ritalin also helps that. If I start "crashing", I take one and it evens out my mood. I won't lie, I use it to zombie-fy myself once in a while.
         
        04-06-2011, 08:08 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Thats terrible im sorry to hear that. Hopefully it gets better for you.

    As odd as this might sound its nice to talk to someone who has been through a similar situation as me.
         
        04-06-2011, 10:08 PM
      #25
    Trained
    I don't think it's odd at all. I also like this a lot. You can skip through the whole "explaining and hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you" stage. I don't tell my friends when I'm mentally freaking out because they either think I'm joking or just don't know what to do. So I just don't tell them. Especially the people I hear go "Oh, I'm being so ADD today" or "Are you being ADD today?". That is a huge pet peeve of mine.
         
        04-07-2011, 09:01 PM
      #26
    Super Moderator
    I wasn't able to see the video, but if I can give my general opinion...

    I think that over-medicating is a problem. I guess that over here it's mainly because of resources the public health care and because it's easier to dump you a pile of medicines than put you in the overstrained system to have therapy or other help like that. I think over-diagnosing isn't a big problem here but I guess it can be like that somewhere. We shouldn't put too strict norms on the 'average' person and what do you need to be and use common sense; is it really a disorder that needs medication or would be treated other way?

    I do believe that there are illnesses and ailments that are based on physical/biological things and need medication, just something like schizoprenia. But if the problem comes from something that has happened to you, medicines can help to keep things together if the situation is bad but it should be solved also otherwise. And may you don't need medication at all. If we count out purely physical/biological problems, I tend to think that mental problems are like fever; sometimes you need to take medicines to get your fever down so you can keep yourself together. But if you don't know the reason behind the problems, you need to find it out. Just like your system goes down if you doesn't listen it and find the reason behind long-term fever but just try to medicate it it, I believe your system can go down that way also with unsettled mental health problems if the reason is something purely non-biological and the only solution is medicines.
         
        04-07-2011, 09:26 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    I do think that over-medicating is a problem and some people may be able to get they help they need through therapists, however, some people really do need medication.

    I battled depression and anxiety from about 13 and into my early 20's. I refused to use meds, instead opting to use more natural treatments. I did everything from therapy, psychologists, homeopathic medicines, vitamins, diet changes, self-help books. Nothing worked. Finally I reached a breaking point where my depression and anxiety was severely affecting my day-to-day life and as a last resort opted to try a prescribed anti-depression. My doctor helped me find one that worked for me (Zoloft) and the difference was night and day. I had NEVER felt as good as I did when I was on my Zoloft. Together, my doctor and I decided to decrease my meds and eventually stop and so far it's been very successful. It was like the medication jump started my mental healing. I may need to go back on it if things get rough, but if it helps me then that's what I'll do. The about Zoloft that helped me was that it allowed me to keep a clear head and gave me the tools to deal with issues in my life. It didn't take away my depression but rather gave me a way to deal and cope.

    I'll admit, I didn't want to go on medication due to the stigma surrounding depression and medication. And I was not alone in feeling that way. Many many people neglect getting the help they need due to that stigma and it's sad. Having lost an uncle and a cousin to suicide caused by depression, I'll never take my depression lightly again and won't feel embarrassed or ashamed to turn to medication again - if that's what I need to make myself better.

    The most important thing is to work carefully with the doctor to determine your mental state and whether or not you need medication. In an ideal world, everyone would be able to find the healing they need without drugs of any kind, however that just not the case.

    And mental illness / disorders can be very complex. It's impossible to paint everyone with the same brush and say 'that person shouldn't need medication' Real depression can be just as debilitating as other more serious disorders like schizophrenia, OCD, etc. and if left untreated can become worse and very unhealthy for the person suffering from it - whether that treatment be basic therapy or medication.
         
        04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
      #28
    Showing
    I am on the boat with the others who said these medications have their place and can work wonders for some people. Other people don't do so well on them, but that doesn't mean that they are incorrect for everyone. I also agree that many people, especially children, and especially here in America, are extremely over medicated. I grew up with a boy that was put on several ADHD medications around the time we hit junior high (~age 12), I had known him my entire life and in a small town, you get to where you know how each parent manages their children. His mother spoiled him completely rotten, never set boundaries, and gave him whatever he wanted just so that he would be quiet. Then, she blamed his unmanageable behavior in school on ADHD and ADD. There are many instances just like that, where normal rebellious behavior from children is medicated instead of disciplined and that creates a lifetime of struggling for a normal life.

    But, I have also seen the other end of the spectrum, with people who had serious mental/emotional disorders that went untreated for years and years. I was a correctional officer in a men's state prison and I can remember quite a few offenders who genuinely needed the medications they were on.

    There was one that pops right to the top of my head; so long as he was on his meds, he was one of the most respectful and 'normal' inmates you could meet. When he would talk to you, it was always "Yes, ma'am", "No, ma'am", "please", "thank you", "excuse me, ma'am", "may I please", etc. On the rare occasion that he would go off his meds, the difference in his personality was almost breathtaking.

    He would get extremely violent and tended to assault the first person he could get his hands on, regardless of whether it was an officer or another inmate. He would also get self destructive, whenever we had him in handcuffs, we could not stand him close to a wall or put him on his knees on the sidewalk. If he could bend down or turn his head and reach a solid surface, he would start beating his own head on whatever he could.

    After we would get him back onto his meds, he was always genuinely apologetic because he regretted doing it, he just couldn't seem to stop himself without his meds. There were several times when he actually broke down and cried while apologizing to whatever officer he happened to assault that particular time.

    That whole thing about the side effects and the adverse reactions is exactly why it is so important to have a doctor that you trust to do what is right for you and to communicate openly with them. If they suggest a drug, then people need to do their own research about it to find out if they want to risk the potential side effects of a particular drug to get the potential help it offers. If there is a particular drug that you don't want to take, there is often several other options of drugs that have similar results but with less or different side effects.

    Not only that, but if you begin to have side effects that you worry aren't normal, it is imperative that you contact the prescribing doctor and tell them exactly what is going on. A good doctor will work with you to find the medication (or lack of) that you need to get you to the best place you can be. If they aren't willing to work with you and listen to you, then they aren't a good doctor and you need to find a different one anyway.

    I also wanted to mention that the big lists of side effects are not a guarantee. They are all 'possible' side effects. One person may take a drug like Zoloft and have no side effects at all except for a tremendously improved quality of life. Another person may take the exact same drug for the exact same emotional issues and be devastated by it, suffer every side effect on the list, and end up suicidal. It's all about finding the right combination that will suit the individual person best.
         
        04-08-2011, 04:14 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    Just wanted to add also that whilst the FDA will withdraw pharmaceutical agents that can be proven to be either dangerous (shows up as wrongful death type lawsuits) or ineffective (shows up as misleading advertising type lawsuits), it usually takes a significant amount of proof and generally a long time (i.e. Years) to withdraw these agents from the market once they have been released.


    Here is an interesting example of a new treatment for thyroid cancer developed by Astra Zeneca. Of 331 patients that were in the treatment group, five died from the severe side effects that resulted from the treatment. This drug has just received FDA approval.


    Of course one argument is that the patients were already in the final stages of a rare and fatal form of cancer and that severely compromises their health and ability to cope with the side effects.

    None in the placebo group died.

    FDA Approves Vandetanib for Medullary Thyroid Cancer

    AstraZeneca: Estimated profits of $1 billion a year from Vandetanib, thanks for playing. Don’t get me wrong, this drug appears to be effective and will possibly prolong the lives of many sufferers. But be aware that the ultimate discovery for a pharmaceutical company is a treatment, particularly one that a patient must rely on for the rest of their lives. They are not interested in cures as there is no profit to be made.

    ETA: ErikaLynn may I ask what you do in the Pharma industry? Just generally interested!
         
        04-09-2011, 05:09 AM
      #30
    Green Broke
    We own care homes for the Elderly mentaly ill. Drugs are sometimes the only thing keeping our staff safe.

    We have one lady who is an absolute sweetheart when she has taken her meds, you can sit in the lounge with her and debate just about anything (politics, the state of the world, whether we should plant pansys or shrubs litteraly anything). If she doesnt take her drugs (and you have got to watch her take them as she doesnt believe she needs them) then she gets violent. The last time she didnt take them she smashed 4 windows with her stick, broke a member of staffs arm and beat anouther member of staff with her walking stick so badly that the member of staff had 2 weeks off work!

    We have anouther lady who is realy brilliant if she takes her meds, functions totaly normaly, goes shopping, walks along the prom etc. If she doesnt take her meds (she is generaly quite good at taking them so instances are very rare) then the first sign is that she retreats to her room, crys floods of tears and doesnt know why. If that isnt spotted as what it is then she goes completly off the rails, has been found wandering the halls naked, organises her clothes all neatly folded and placed in piles in the corridors all over the house, the final stage (which if she gets to the running round naked stage then the final stage always follows) is when she puts herself up against the wall and stands and shakes, she is utterly unresponsive to the real world at this point and has to be sectioned under the mental health act which is the only way in which we can legally MAKE her do something or where we can do something without her consent (like force feed her or force her medications into her or have the hospital admit her and IV liquids into her). She has been known to stand up against a wall for days and will not eat and will not move for anything (so will pee and poo herself where she stands).

    Now you witness that (and the aftermath) tell me that drugs don't work!
         

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