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post #11 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Indyhorse View Post
I absolutely LOVE the word fear-mongering!!

Especially when it's applied to proven scientific fact!

I automatically award negative intelligence points to anyone who uses it, particularly on this topic!
Are you talking about the handful of scientists that promote the global warming initiative to get money for grants or the thousands that have no monetary gain at stake that dispute the so-called facts?

I automatically award negative intelligence points to people that think that anyone who disagrees with them is ignorant or stupid.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #12 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
The problem is that the governments that are mandating the lower emmision standards are hurting peoples liveleyhood, wasteing tax dollars that could be spent actually doing something and grabbing more power than a central government should have. Fraud is never innocent and benign. The carbon credits scam is brilliant in that everyone with half a brain can see it for the scam it is but nobody is stopping it. It rolls forward a little more every day. Companies that are forced by the government to buy carbon offsets are going to pass the cost on to customers making the poor people poorer while the rich get richer.

One of the problems with the climate change initiatives is the "I've got mine but you can't have yours" attitude of the people. The entire continent of Africa is being kept in poverty and war because industrialized countries that tamed thier frontier many generations ago are taking steps to ensure that African countries that could be producing more than enough food to feed thier people are creating nature preserves and not utilizing thier natural resources. That is why they all have to have thier hands out.
Personally I don't think mandating lower emission standards is bad at all, it'd be a good idea. Believing innovations, I think that if people really wanted to be creative they'd find their way to go lower emissions and keep still good economy.

I just think the problem is that this doesn't work in practice, at least with its current state.

"On hyviä vuosia, kauniita muistoja, mutta kuitenkaan, en saata unohtaa,
Että koskaan en ole yksin, varjo seuraa onneain.
Vaikka myrsky hetkeksi tyyntyykin, varjo seuraa onneain.
Ja pian taas uusin hönkäyksin, varjo seuraa onneain.
Hei tuu mun luo, pieneksi hetkeksi. Puhutaan, varjoni, valkoiseksi enkeliksi."

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post #13 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 01:03 PM
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Kiwigirl is right about the movies/tv/tabloids & so many other destructive practices that serve our survival not at all, yet that's all the more reason to recycle, buy green detergent, etc., imo. There's a garbage patch the size of Texas (literally) floating in the ocean; critters get caught in it. Then, of course is the latest oil spill in the Gulf, impacting critters, people, & plant life enormously. Who can deny these problems?
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post #14 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 02:21 PM
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C02 needs to be brought down in cities for its citizens enjoyment. Global warming isnt what its hyped up to be , of course we are putting more CO2 into the air and it may cause some warming but its not permanent and its not going to cause enviremental harm. If its such a big deal , start making zones in cities and simply PLANT TREES if its that big of a deal. It may be to late to zone off for trees in most cities but its a simple fix.

Also studies from Anartica have shown that the Earth goes through periods of hot and cold. Its just a cycle. Ice Ages are usually the cause of Polar Shifts no matter how miniscule they are.

For another debate ...i bet the world ends in 2012 to a Polar ice shift conisdering we are actually OVER DUE on a polar shift :P


Last edited by milkyway12; 06-19-2010 at 02:29 PM.
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post #15 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 02:41 PM
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Ignoring the political part of it all, I don't understand why you wouldnt want to try and keep the planet as good as/better than you left it regardless of if you believe the world is going to end because you drive a truck.
We have an effect on the planet. Everything does. And I agree that I'm more concerned about the excess of crap we have than I am a cow fart, but I think we should try and save energy where we can.

I don't think the world is going to collapse anytime soon. I do think we need to stop living in excess.
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post #16 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 02:44 PM
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I'm in school, and theres so many people telling us about what kind of world we want to live for our kids... honestly? none of us could care any less. Sorry, no im not going to bike to school, its an hour long busride because i live in the country, I am not going to stop drinking juiceboxes or anything like that, frankly, i like juice boxes, and the more people blab to me about how im killing the planet with my juiceboxes, the more juiceboxes i want to drink. haha. My mom likes to recycle, theres no harm in it, its so easy, you just have an exctra bin beside the garbadge, and you throw almost everything into it. But the enviromentalists are going after the wrong people, ever noticed itshard to get a fantastic printer that you have your whole life nowadays? my auntie has a printer from a LONG time ago, it works better then any new printer anyone i know has boughten, all that plastic when you have to throwthem into the garbage doesnt help. They dont even fix printers now, they jsut say throw 'em out and buy a new one. Things from a long time ago worked so much better, my mom has a phone that shes has since i was like, 8, she has put it through hell, and its still works perfectly, my phone i got at christmas? i treat it like fine china, and it barely works. I think if people just made better quality stuff that would help.

But i still dont believe that te world is going to end anytime soon, the only thing that is making the world unpleasant is the way most people act!

If there are no horses in heaven... im not going.
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post #17 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 03:37 PM
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I'm with ridergirl23. I am not going to change my lifestyle just because people are ruining the planet. We should have been worrying about these problems twenty years ago instead of freaking out about it now.

And no. Global warming does not exist. It has been proven to be a false theory, and I never believed it in the first place.

And I for one cannot respect our government asking people to go green when the biggest spokesman for "going green", Al Gore, has no problem riding around in his big SUV and taking a private jet everywhere.

Red Money Maker (Red) - 2004 Sorrel QH Gelding
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post #18 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 03:57 PM
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Kiwi, thank you, that was interesting. I'm going to use the volcano bit the next time I'm cornered in a debate about "global warming".

I'm not going to say anymore, because quite frankly I could go on for weeks about this, and I have. I've engaged in many an argument with my science teacher over this topic. (Needless to say, I skipped most of the environment unit classes-it's just not worth the trouble I'd undoubtedly cause.)

...Ah! There's so much I want to say, but I think I'd better not.
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post #19 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 04:36 PM
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There is more to environmental issues than carbon levels. Ground water is a HUGE issue that many people choose to ignore because it is just too frightening and no one has any idea what to do about it. Global warming does in fact exist - to what extent is hotly debated by different schools of research. Government vs university or privately funded research yield very different results.
Do I get sick of hearing about environmental issues? No. Whether or not you believe in global warming is up to you, but you can not deny the huge impact the human race is having on the planet. Animal species extinction, the recent dissapearance of pollenators (which are mandatory for growth of crops), ground water levels depleating and being polluted, the state of our oceans and fisheries are all serious issues which must be addressed and can not be ignored.
Because politicians are taking a soft stance on the environment, denying the existance of problems etc, is no reason to to take the same relaxed approach. Be a self-thinker. Look beyopnd the news stories and do some investigating. The issues need to be addressed - now. I'm not completely on board with the carbon tax, but I do believe the government needs to interviene with regards to major manucturer environmental policies and standards. Does it mean I may pay more taxes? Most likely. SO be it. This is also coming from someone who lives in one of the most highly taxed countries in the world.
To address the issue of personal consumption and wasteful products on our store shelves - I believe that it is everyones responsibity to do their own part. Don't use products that are overpackaged. Buy environmentally friendly cleaners. If you are a parent, think about cloth diapers (I use them and they are great. No pins involved, either) get an E-paper instead of the curb side variety. Buy organic whenever possible. Use stainless steel water bottles instead of plastic. Recycle PROPERLY. Reduce your waste any way you can. THINK about the products you buy and weather or not there are better alternatives. You may even save some $$.
Keep in mind that environmental problems affect your HEALTH not just the health of the planet. There are many conclusive studies that link pollutants and use of plastics from everything from cancer, reproductive issues to autism.
It's a lot easier to bury your head in the sand and pretend that everything is sunshine and roses, but I prefer reality to fantasy.
Rant over from a radical treehugger type.

~Lindsay~ Mom of 2, wife to the goldsmith, doula and childbirth educator in training, life-long horse dork
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post #20 of 56 Old 06-19-2010, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Don't get me wrong, I care about my environment. I just do it in ways that are realistic and sensible. What I get sick of is scientists talking in absolutes. The truth is no one knows what effect what is having on anything. Scientists are paid by companies to prove or disprove things. I bet a scientist employed by Coca Cola can scientifically prove that can good for people on some levels. I also bet that a scientist paid by a nutritional food group can scientifically prove that it isn't.

There have been and will be again natural events that will cancel out every bit of damage done by people on this planet. In the center of the North Island here in NZ we have a very large lake. Lake Taupo has a surface area of 616km - the whole of lake Taupo is a crater, it was created by a massive volcanic explosion roughly 26000 years ago. Apparently the Taupo volcano has erupted 28 times since its first big bang. Its most recent eruption was in 180 CE, this eruption is the largest recorded in history the skies and sunsets created from it were noted by Roman and Chinese observers. Yet here I am living in NZ, trout fishing in the crater of a volcano that was so violent it was felt globally. By the way Taupo is a dormant volcano NOT exstinct!

I remember being taught that Rainforests are "the lungs of the planet". That we get our oxygen from trees yadiyadiyah. Later on in life I have discovered that the net oxygen production of a rainforest is Zero. Trees produce carbon dioxide at night when they aren't photosynthesizing. They lock up carbon and oxygen into sugars but when they die and rot they release carbon dioxide. So if you chop down a tree and burn it you get a one off carbon emmission. However to permanently ensure that carbon emmission can never reoccur, Do Not replace it with another tree. Sorry people every time you plant a tree you are subjecting the planet to a hundred years or more of nightly carbon emmissions. Here is a funny little irony, concrete on the other hand absorbs carbon dioxide while it cures. In fact the absorbtion of carbon dioxide by concrete continues on for at least ten years after it has been laid. Less trees, more concrete = less carbon emmissions.

You see, there is so much science out there but what info do we get passed through the media? The science that is going to allow governments to enforce taxes, and science that corporations can use to guilt us into buying " green" products.
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