Fires outta control - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 05:05 AM
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That's it. It provides moral support and a show of leadership. Especially after Katrina, I imagine presidents will be fairly prompt to appear at the site of any disaster. Bush did not go to New Orleans until the situation had become badly unraveled due to the immense scale of it and poor disaster management on FEMA's part, and he took a sound beating in the media for that one. It could be weeks, if not months, until they get these fires completely out. If Obama waited, he'd no doubt get hammered for looking like he doesn't care.

You are, in a way, comparing apples and oranges. It's not as if a president could visit a hurricane-hit area while the hurricane is occurring. You'd have a hard time even landing Air Force One!

Also, it's not as if action isn't being taken. The president does not need to be sitting in the Oval Office signing checks in order to divert federal funds to Colorado. As I stated above, FEMA and the National Guard are very much involved in the effort.
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post #22 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 05:27 AM
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Also, it's not as if action isn't being taken. The president does not need to be sitting in the Oval Office signing checks in order to divert federal funds to Colorado. As I stated above, FEMA and the National Guard are very much involved in the effort.
Again, as I said nothing against the president I just personally didn't understand what help it would provide. I don't keep up with politics.

And I wasn't "slagging" I just said I don't see that helping. Your reaction was a bit over the top, you must be passionate about these things.

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #23 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 05:59 AM
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I'm passionate in my quest against ignorance and the prevailing habit, it seems, that people have of leaping to assumptions (i.e. The federal government isn't doing anything except for sending Obama to have a wander around the Springs) when not in possession of any facts (i.e. The federal government has diverted a rather large amount of money and manpower to CO in order to assist local authorities with the fire-fighting efforts).

Last edited by thesilverspear; 06-29-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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post #24 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 06:37 AM
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Yes assumptions, but I didn't make any. I just gave my opinion and then I said I hope he's doing something (if he's not already.)

I too loathe assumptions.. they only lead to trouble

But thank you for letting me know about what he's doing. Hopefully the fires can be conquered..

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #25 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 11:48 AM
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Well, long ago in some parts of the southwest they use to build fire breaks and pack them w fire ******ant, and air drop it in a contiguous line where it was not accessable by vehicle. They were effective and not constructed in response to a fire, but rather to prevent the spread of future fires. However, they decided this practice was destructive to the environment, which is indisputabley in both errosion and release of toxins. However, risk assessment did not seem to enter the equation - and now they think it best to drop it from the sky only after a fire has started. The whole of the perimeter of fires that rage as large as some of the very recent ones cannot be contained by the air-drop method, and it is not readily available when there are multiple fires raging in multiple states.

I have seen the devastation of fires as they have come very close to our home. The devastation far exceeds that realized by preventive fire breaks. And, the loss of wildlife, their homes, and the cost in dollars is many multiples higher.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #26 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 12:01 PM
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Well, long ago in some parts of the southwest they use to build fire breaks and pack them w fire ******ant, and air drop it in a contiguous line where it was not accessable by vehicle. They were effective and not constructed in response to a fire, but rather to prevent the spread of future fires. However, they decided this practice was destructive to the environment, which is indisputabley in both errosion and release of toxins. However, risk assessment did not seem to enter the equation - and now they think it best to drop it from the sky only after a fire has started. The whole of the perimeter of fires that rage as large as some of the very recent ones cannot be contained by the air-drop method, and it is not readily available when there are multiple fires raging in multiple states.

I have seen the devastation of fires as they have come very close to our home. The devastation far exceeds that realized by preventive fire breaks. And, the loss of wildlife, their homes, and the cost in dollars is many multiples higher.
Man that's very conflicting.. it's either let the fire spread and attempt to contain it with other resources.. or use a fire break packed with ******ant that is toxic to the environment to contain the fire but have bad side effects.

"/ Looks like a Catch 22.

I'm going to do some research tomorrow, but what do they use now.. just water or is there something that works better?

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #27 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel View Post
Yes assumptions, but I didn't make any. I just gave my opinion and then I said I hope he's doing something (if he's not already.)

I too loathe assumptions.. they only lead to trouble

But thank you for letting me know about what he's doing. Hopefully the fires can be conquered..
Just a quick note about how disasters are handled here. First and formost, federal aid is provided, but usually has to be formally requested by whatever state is involved. In this case, federal fire fighters are automatically dispatched from Ft. Smith Arkansas, which is in the middle of the country.

Then comes an official federal disaster declaration, which can come from acouple ofr sources - normally from the President or the Secretary of Agriculture. Once that formal declaration is made, it frees up funding for more aid, including FEMA grants, and personal and business disaster loans through SBA. The state will make a disaster declaration also to free their funds, but that is usually on a much smaller scale. If I remember correctly, Obama made the official disaster declaration yesterday in conjunction with his trip to Colorado Springs. I am retired from SBA and have done disaster duty in several locations of the country.

Disaster funds are approved annually, with a bucket of money if you will, allocated to disaster relief. The use of the funds is EXTREMELY political. Senators and Representatives fight to get disasters declared in their districts and states, so their constituents get the money. One might think that the only disaster declarations are for weather and fire related disasters, but there are other types declared as well - again, usually for political reasons. Insect infestation is a common one, and all states have those, but the Congressmen with the most seniority and stroke are the ones that usually get declarations made for those type "disasters"...
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post #28 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 12:10 PM
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Thank you Faceman for explaining that rather elaborately. I really did appreciate it!

At least CO is getting the help it needs.

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #29 of 63 Old 06-29-2012, 01:32 PM
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Man that's very conflicting.. it's either let the fire spread and attempt to contain it with other resources.. or use a fire break packed with ******ant that is toxic to the environment to contain the fire but have bad side effects.

"/ Looks like a Catch 22.

I'm going to do some research tomorrow, but what do they use now.. just water or is there something that works better?
To my knowledge, the red ******ant they currently use when a fire is in progress is basically the same in chemical composition as it always was. They spread it from the air on a perimeter outside the fire, as well as on the fire - from observation. The idea of spreading ******ant from the air to create a "break" is good, however, it is over "fuel", and due to the laws of physics it can't be as evenly distributed as when it is carefully laid upon a bulldozed path, so they aren't as effective. They do use airlifted water for "direct hits" on the fire or threatened homes, again, just from my observation.

There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it.
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post #30 of 63 Old 06-30-2012, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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well the fires are now ranked as the most destructive in the states history...uuuuuh duh. Over 35,000 now evacuated and over 300+homes destroyed. I don't know about fatalities but I've heard of 3 now so far. According to my parents the community centers in Farmington are now opening up to evacuees (dunno the word right now..haha brain dump) and mcgee park (local riding arena) is discussing opening its stalls up to the evacuated horses.

Also heard they are working more on trying to control the blazes. Not as much on saving property but getting them out or under control. Dunno all the facts just what I hear from friends volunteering.

*Insert something witty*
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