Gay Marriage Is going to Supreme Court! - Page 17 - The Horse Forum

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post #161 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
IF, by "no one", you are referring to homosexuals only, then I accept that...I wouldn't expect a homosexual couple to care much about God or religion to begin with.
Well, let's see how much more freaking offensive you can get, shall we? Why, exactly, would you not expect them to care much about god or religion? Do you think homosexuals cannot be religious? You think they are godless, hedonistic religion bashers?

The notion that someone who is gay doesn't care much about religion or god is ludicrous and shows your true prejudice.

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But the vehicle to accomplish that should not be marriage - it should be a civil union called by whatever name they want to call it.
That "whatever name they want to call it" would be marriage... I was married in a courthouse... does that mean I'm not really married?
[/QUOTE]
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.
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post #162 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 01:27 PM
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If same-sex couples what to me married in the eyes of God, well that's a whole 'nother battle.
It's interesting that there are MANY churches that have performed same-sex marriages that are recognized by the church but not the government...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.
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post #163 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RedHorseRidge View Post
No, that's the world according to history... you know, that stuff that existed before religion and the catholic church... Did you even read my post?

Marriage only "recently" (in historical terms) became a holy sacrament. Marriages were being performed long before the church became involved in 13th century. And even after that, many groups rejected the notion of marriage and church being "joined"... even the Puritans passed an act of parliament in the 1700s making marriage purely secular... they believed marriage was a contract between two people which had nothing to do with the church. And believe it or not, there are still people today who don't believe marriage has to be blessed by the church.

Marriage can be recognized by more than just a religion; it can be recognized by a state, a tribal group, a community, etc. Just because many catholics and other Americans consider marriage a holy union does not make it a religious institution... it may be to them, but that doesn't make it a religious institution by law.

Marriage in the US is a government institution void of any religious affiliation; one does not have be religious to get married or have a marriage recognized by the state or federal government.



Well, yippee skippee for them... that doesn't mean squat in regards to what I posted. Use some logic here Face (I know you have that ability). Civil and religious marriage are NOT the same thing, and our government recognizes civil marriages.... it's just that some of them are performed in a church and also recognized by that religion as a religious marriage.



Snide remarks again? Well, based on your response, I'd sure as heck do a better job than you, as you apparently don't understand there was history before the catholic church.
Bwahaha...study some history. Did you not read what I told you? If not, I will repeat it - marriage has been a holy sacrament in the Catholic Church for nearly 2,000 years.

Is there something you don't understand about that? Too difficult?

And as far as snide remarks...if the shoe fits, wear it...
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post #164 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 01:56 PM
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Well, let's see how much more freaking offensive you can get, shall we?
Oh - now it is "offensive" to have an opinion? I suppose it is OK for liberals and homosexuals to have their opinions, but not a conservative opposed to homosexual "marriage"? I oppose homosexual marriage, and think it is a farce and a joke, but I don't find those with a differing opinion "offensive".

What a hypocrite...
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post #165 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 01:59 PM
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Same-sex couples just want federal benefits, that's all.
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And I agree with that - not only federal, but any other benefits, as well as acceptance by society...not necessarily approval, as that is not going to happen, but acceptance in the form of being treated as everyone else is treated. We don't have to approve of people's lifestyle choices to accept them...
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post #166 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post

IF, by "no one", you are referring to homosexuals only, then I accept that...I wouldn't expect a homosexual couple to care much about God or religion to begin with.

That is one of the most offensive and judgemental statements I have seen you make. Just because they are homosexual they cannot be religious or want to be recognized by their church? In what world? I know some deeply religious gay and lesbian folks who attend their church regularly. A church that can look beyond their noses. Or, are you among the people who believe they are ****ed and have no reason to even consider themselves spiritual?



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But the vehicle to accomplish that should not be marriage - it should be a civil union called by whatever name they want to call it..
Believe it, or not, God and church just may mean as much to a gay person as it does to you. They ought to be married in the eyes of their church, though maybe not by yours.

Civil unions have never offered the same protections as civil marriage. THAT is the problem!!
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post #167 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post

80 million, or 25% of Americans, are Catholic. Marriage is a holy sacrament in the Catholic church (between a man and woman, by the way), and has been for 2,000 years, with a requirement for the last 500 years that marriage must be performed in the church.

I hope it is not history that you teach...
You're wrong. Marriage became a sacrament in the 12th century. I hope you get your facts straight.

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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post

IF, by "no one", you are referring to homosexuals only, then I accept that...I wouldn't expect a homosexual couple to care much about God or religion to begin with.
Funny you should say that.... I was a nun and so was my partner. We are Catholics. We realized that God was calling us to be together. We both left after spending hours in prayer, listening to God and being open to what our true call was and who God wanted us to be. We were lucky. We had the courage to be who God made us to be. Many people do not.

We are both still Catholic and we both still pray. The difference is the Catholic Church is not open to us.... But God is.
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post #168 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 PM
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Bwahaha...study some history. Did you not read what I told you? If not, I will repeat it - marriage has been a holy sacrament in the Catholic Church for nearly 2,000 years.
Gee, even Bishop Usher admits that the Earth is older than 2,000 years. 2,000 is just a blip in the timeline.....

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Is there something you don't understand about that? Too difficult?

And as far as snide remarks...if the shoe fits, wear it...
Good grief. You really think this is constructive debate?
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post #169 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
And I agree with that - not only federal, but any other benefits, as well as acceptance by society...not necessarily approval, as that is not going to happen, but acceptance in the form of being treated as everyone else is treated. We don't have to approve of people's lifestyle choices to accept them...
Ok, so then there is no argument here. There are many things I do don't agree with, but I accept. Same-sex couples are only fighting for equal rights under the law, not recognition of marriages through the church.

... And I revoke the statement about "No one cares about religious marriage". They do, but its a whole 'nother battle, like I said. But the reason for this court case is simply about legality and receiving the same governmental benefits as man/woman unions. I tend to leave religion out of a lot of things only because I wasn't brought up with one.
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post #170 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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That is one of the most offensive and judgemental statements I have seen you make. Just because they are homosexual they cannot be religious or want to be recognized by their church? In what world? I know some deeply religious gay and lesbian folks who attend their church regularly. A church that can look beyond their noses. Or, are you among the people who believe they are ****ed and have no reason to even consider themselves spiritual?
My apologies, I kinda brought that on. By "no one" I meant no one in this case is seeking acceptance via the church. I'm sure there are those who do and have been recognized in their own churches. As I stated above, I seem to forget about the religious position of things, as I was never really brought up with religion. But your right, there ARE people who are practicing.. whatever their religion may be... and still very gay. I don't believe God is going to judge people based on sexuality only. A good person is a good person!
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