Gay Marriage Is going to Supreme Court! - Page 18 - The Horse Forum

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post #171 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BaileyJo View Post
You're wrong. Marriage became a sacrament in the 12th century. I hope you get your facts straight.


If you had an inkling of what you were talking about, you would know that marriage was first declared a sacrament in the 5th century, and went through several steps before the sacrament became part of canon law in the 16th century.

What is the history of marriage? | USCatholic.org

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post #172 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
If you had an inkling of what you were talking about, you would know that marriage was first declared a sacrament in the 5th century, and went through several steps before the sacrament became part of canon law in the 16th century.

What is the history of marriage? | USCatholic.org

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Oh please. What a joke.

At least I know what I am talking about. You were saying it was a sacrament for 2000 years. Hello? I bet you $5 you even had to look that up.
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post #173 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Gee, even Bishop Usher admits that the Earth is older than 2,000 years. 2,000 is just a blip in the timeline.....



Good grief. You really think this is constructive debate?
I don't know - don't you think it is constructive in a debate to correct an incorrect statement? Do you know what a debate is? When someone makes a statement, that statement is open to be criticized and/or corrected by the opponent.

As for 2,000 years, be reminded that was correcting an erroneous statement that marriage is historically a civil union - which (as I said) is incorrect to 80 million Catholics and millions of others in the US. Do you seriously want to challenge that? Also, please be reminded that 2,000 years is not a "blip" in historical times. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they call the true "olden days" PREhistorical, because we don't really know what Grogg was thinking about when he dragged his new bride home by the hair...
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post #174 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:29 PM
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Bwahaha...study some history. Did you not read what I told you? If not, I will repeat it - marriage has been a holy sacrament in the Catholic Church for nearly 2,000 years.
.
I'm talking about history BEFORE the church... did you not read what I posted? Go look it up. Marriage existed before religion... imagine that.

I'm not arguing that marriage has been a holy sacrament in the catholic church for nearly 2000 years. I'm simply saying marriage was a civil union way before it was a religious one. Just because the church sees it as a religious union does not nullify that fact that it is a civil union.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.
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post #175 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Faceman View Post
If you had an inkling of what you were talking about, you would know that marriage was first declared a sacrament in the 5th century, and went through several steps before the sacrament became part of canon law in the 16th century.

What is the history of marriage? | USCatholic.org

Internet experts are quite humorous...

I read this in your site, too....

Quote:
The fifth-century Council of Florence declared, “The seventh sacrament is marriage, which is a figure of the union of Christ and the church.” This declaration, however, was issued to clarify the relationship between Christ and the church. Thanks to its societal ubiquity, marriage was a handy metaphor.

Fifteen hundred years after Cana, during the seventh session of the Council of Trent in 1547, sacramental marriage became part of canon law. Centuries of local tradition, political interference, and conflicting religious opinions over what constituted a valid marriage faded as this critical change finally enabled the church to rule more consistently and effectively on marriage questions.
Always read the WHOLE article before posting.
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post #176 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 05:47 PM
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Oh - now it is "offensive" to have an opinion? I suppose it is OK for liberals and homosexuals to have their opinions, but not a conservative opposed to homosexual "marriage"? I oppose homosexual marriage, and think it is a farce and a joke, but I don't find those with a differing opinion "offensive".

What a hypocrite...
You can be opposed to whatever you want and say you don't believe in gay marriage as much as you'd like to... that's your opinion and I don't give a rat's ass how many times you express it.

But saying you don't expect gays to be religious is not simply an opinion... it is a preconceived notion based on no facts... the very definition of prejudice. Look it up. Better yet, I'll do it for you:
Let me google that for you
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.
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post #177 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 06:07 PM
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But saying you don't expect gays to be religious is not simply an opinion... it is a preconceived notion based on no facts... the very definition of prejudice. Look it up. Better yet, I'll do it for you:
Let me google that for you
You know what they say about assumptions.

I have very few "preconceived notions" - probably due to my age and having lived all over the world. What makes you think my opinions are based upon preconceived notions rather than observation?

I don't know how many homosexuals I have known - maybe 200 - 300 I suspect...some in the Army, some in college, some at work, some in my travels, and some just friends or acquaintances. I have had maybe 15 or 20 work directly for me over the years, and I have a couple of homosexual relatives, an uncle and a nephew. Among those I know or have known, I have yet to meet one that cared much about God or about religion in general. Should it be a revelation or "offensive" that I would be surprised if homosexuals cared much about religion?

Now that is not to say those that don't care may not be justified. After all, they have been shunned by most churches throughout history. Why would it be a surprise to anyone if they were hesitant to go where they have not been welcome. And as I have made clear ad nauseum, I think homosexuals should be treated the same way as everyone else. I certainly don't support excluding them from church - or anything else for that matter.

I am constantly amazed at how people find someone that lives in the real world "offensive". The world is what it is - I didn't make it that way, and I have done my part to try to right what wrongs I can within my little corner of it. But it is foolish to, in the effort to be politically correct, to close one's eyes to the real world. Problems are NEVER solved by ignoring them - they are solved by recognizing them, admitting they are problems, confronting them, and trying to resolve them...
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post #178 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 06:15 PM
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I'm talking about history BEFORE the church... did you not read what I posted? Go look it up. Marriage existed before religion... imagine that.

I'm not arguing that marriage has been a holy sacrament in the catholic church for nearly 2000 years. I'm simply saying marriage was a civil union way before it was a religious one. Just because the church sees it as a religious union does not nullify that fact that it is a civil union.
Yes, I read what you posted. Did YOU read what you posted yourself?...

You said...
Quote:
Marriage, historically has been a civil institution
You did NOT say anything at all about "before the church".

I cannot read your mind - I can what read what you write and respond to that...
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post #179 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 06:36 PM
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I read this in your site, too....



Always read the WHOLE article before posting.
And why would you think I hadn't read the entire article? Or hundreds of others over the years. I am not a 5 minute internet "expert" like some.

Nothing you quoted in the article conflicted with anything I have said. Actually, thank you for doing the copy and paste, as it merely confirms what I said to those that didn't link to the article...
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post #180 of 226 Old 04-02-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
and hence my point. Gods view, or whether you think it is good or bad isnt relevant. I can't speak for God, I do know it isnt my place to judge others for actions that don't affect me.
I think gays should have every right to be just as miserable as the rest of us. WHy should they get off so easy ?
I sure agree with that! If I were in a gay relationship I'd be glad there was no pressure to marry.
Sure, marriage can be great, until it isn't.
Now, if gay people or any unmarried couple wants to split up, they just do. They agree what each will take etc., sometimes they can even remain friends. Enter the divorce lawyers & pretty soon they are fighting over the value of barn cats.

If Government gives you permission to marry then you have to ask their permission to unmarry (is that a word?)

There are contracts to cover single couples in every aspect of life or you can make your own. No big tax advantage to being married that I see. Even heath insurance for married people is considered a family/group policy & can be more costly than 2 single plans. Also you get to be responsible for half of all debt.
His/her bad name can become yours.

Divorce lawyers are the only ones that will benefit in the long run. Meetings, court dates, back & forth bantering all costs money & breeds resentment.

I personally don't think any marriage is smart though I would consider marrying some rich guy who just entered hospice care if I didn't already have a contract making me his heir.

I don't oppose gay marriage any more than I oppose all marriage.
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